Lotus Elan

carb balance tools/corner weighing

PostPost by: alexblack13 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:19 pm

Hi all,
A couple of questions again. ( Although no one answered the question on the knock on /off wheel nut tool. Did start an interesting blog though :cry: :cry: )

Carb' balancing tools. Any good? Or better to use the time honoured manual diy method (s)... ??

Mixture adjustment tools. Same question. Colour tune type tools etc any good? Or better with the best rpm/choke system/method etc..

What works for you? Who is using what?


Corner weights? Any buyable tools out there? I mean cost wise. Pro' systems cost an arm n leg. Any suggestions? 4 sets of bathroom scales won't cut it by the way. OK for Karting though :wink:

Merry Xmas guys.

Alex B.... 8)
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PostPost by: RobL7/Elan » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:12 pm

Alex,

I use a "Uni-Syn" or a length of tubing in the ole ear for the balancing phase of Weber Tuning. I've heard good things about "Color Tune" over the years, but never have used one.

Rob
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PostPost by: RobL7/Elan » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:18 pm

Alex,

Also give a look to racetep.com/webjettune

Rob
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PostPost by: paddy » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:19 am

I do use a Colortune to adjust the idle mixture. I have also tried the age-old method of monitoring the idle speed while adjusting the idle mixture screws, which also works fine but you have to be very patient (after each small adjustment it can take upwards of 30s for the idle speed to stabilise), and everything else has to be perfect (eg any small scatter in timing from the distributor and it makes it all quite haphazard because the idle speed is fluctuating a bit anyway). With the Colortune I personally feel more confident that I've got it right. For the cost of it, I think it's worth having.

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PostPost by: twincamman » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:53 pm

PAY ATTENTION !!!! get a unysin ---Joe uses a hose and Benny uses colour tune and Sammy kills a chicken and read its entrails --GET A UNYSIN --use it - life will be good and the f55n car will run --cost you about 25 bucks -as for idle mix -back each idle screw out 1 and 1/4 turns and forgedaboutit -and for corner weight if the chassis isnt bent it wont make squat----just drive the car ---you are not in F 1 ---ed
Last edited by twincamman on Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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PostPost by: elancoupe » Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:44 pm

Carbtune balancer ----- the only way to go. http://www.carbtune.com/

Light years ahead of a Unisyn or Syncrometer, I have both here, if anydody wants to buy them. :D
Mike
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PostPost by: jkolb » Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:19 pm

RE the CarbTune balancer. Is there an existing vacuum port on the Webers that you can use, or do you need to add one to each of the intake runners? I have used this with an early M3 and it worked great.

Jerry
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PostPost by: Rob_LaMoreaux » Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:36 pm

The Carbtune is best if you have the vacume ports.

The Synchrometer is second since it provides less restrictions to the airflow and thus can be used effectively without upping the idle like the Unisyn needs.

As far as balancing being worth it. the Answer is a definite YES. The tools make it a lot easier and quicker so they are worth it. I wish I had bought a synchrometer or multiball vacuum guage like the Carbtune instead of the unisyn. I have borrowed a friends Synchrometer and it was much better than the unisyn.

for corner weights, I use a racers friends set of scales, since I fixed and calibrated them for him. Make friends with the racer crowd. I started out adjusting by feel which ended up working fine, but my driving skills aren't as great as my father-in-laws.



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PostPost by: twincamman » Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:57 pm

ya know guys ----I see all this stuff about corner weights and bump steer on this site --nobody ever asks about shut off points or braking points or turn in points or tire slip angles or the correct apex on the race line or proper car placement and balance ---entrance speed -- how to analyse a track and its corner combinations sacrifice straights and corners ----just a few of the many problems to gain and maintain momentum and control THATS WHERE THE SPEED IS not sitting around in string back gloves and patting oneself on the back because you went to a play day in your Elan and scared yourself or wrecked the car by going in over your head ----this is serious stuff ---- ----in 30 years of racing the fastest guys I ever saw just drove the bags off the car smoothly and consistently --some with bits and pieces falling off the car and a set up that made me pale of even thinking of sitting in a car in that condition - with all due respect go to a proper race school and learn the fast way around first ---[end rant and Merry Christmas] ---ed
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:21 pm

Super interesting answers so far guys. A BIG THANK YOU... :D

Looks like a tune using the colourtune to set the mixtures up 1st then balance. Just as I would do manually. I am not sure as yet if I have vac' ports to support carbtune type device. I will go look asap. If not I think I will make the effort to drill them. What do you think? Worth it or not ??

Please keep the info' coming. :)

Corner weights. Had my + 2 on a set of scales just as a look see, as I did not have any adjustability on that car. The bloke who looked at it for me said (had I had some spring height adjustment) that 10 mins setting the car up would have made a noticable difference. It was apparently, not all that far out but worth adjusting. That's why I put the adjustable kit on the Sprint.

I think I will take it up to a company just outside Dundee to have it set up. Then it will be take some measurements and note in the book, then leave as is.

Twincamman.... Sure you have the right blog? I am only asking about setting up my newly restored car! Down boy!!

I live in sight of Knockhill circuit in fife and have driven it many many times. Been to race school (We raced karts for many years VERY successfully) Been there and done that. etc etc. Thats not what I am trying to do. This little car is unlikly to be raced ever. Cool it !!


Roll.on summer.... 8)
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:56 pm

Twincammans rant reminded me of one super incident on teaching Granny to suck eggs..

A wee true Xmas story ......... :lol: :lol:

I was chatting away to some friends at a Local airfield flying club where I kept my little 4 seat Grumman AA5 airplane. Into the officie / reception area walked a young guy and his girlfriend. Very well dressed, wearing a St Andrews Uni' scarf, and carrying a big pro' pilot log book. (Turned out to be RAF).. The club's pet gofur, gorur this, gofur that, you know the type. He used to hang around like a bad smell. His self appointed 'job' was to meet and greet etc and he 'jumped' this couple when they arrived. He missed a big clue with this guy though, and during the 'come with me and I will show you what an airplane is' walk round the apron, during which he subjected (the RAF Pilot :lol: ) to an extended 'tour' of a Cessna 150 aerobat. We had a look thro' this guy's log book (With his girlfriends permission), during the their tour, and it was a sight to behold. Thousands of hours. Large % of which was combat time !!!! Entries for harrier/Tornado/and........ Hawk any one?? Red arrows ring a bell???

Boy did we laugh.. We kept his life a misery for years with that little escapade. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostPost by: twincamman » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:23 pm

two years ago on a visit to Edinburgh I met a fellow who runs a shop in Canning street ---he invited me to a meet at Knock hill but I was flying back on the Friday ---and could not change my flight in one day ----but the next trip I will try to arrange my visit around an event there as a spectator --- [the last crash at Mosport was big and ended my active driving ]----the website shows a small interesting track --we get a lot of carters at 16 ---they arrive and are at the sharp end in one session -some know nothing of the mechanical end as their Dads do all the work ---but they are quick ----ed
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:38 pm

Hi Again.
My lad started Karting at around 12 yrs old. He raced model electric cars b4 that. He just went... He had a few near misses with one or two very good results. I won't bore you with detail. We had to retire (when he was in 2nd place in the Scottish super series) when he went off to work for Shell and that ended that. I was one of those dads. He used to watch, race,report and watch again. But he knew how to set up his Kart.

He might even read this from his post on Brent Delta in the North Sea. If so... merry Xmas son and I will see you on the 30th... :D :D

Knockhill, as I said I can see fom my bedroom window. Anyone in the Area (or going to be) feel free to give me an e mail and I will help with travel etc if wanting to visit the circuit. It is small and very technical. My best time round it in my +2 was approx 1 min10 sec. Not bad for a road car. I always went home from the Club Lotus track days with no brakes and very little rubber left. Good job it was only around 4 mls eh!

Give me a call if you are in the Fife area..

8)
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PostPost by: patrics » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:50 am

Hello Alex

What about one of these corner weight gauges?
Pace Products Corner Weight Gauge ?153.11 - ?175.98(exc VAT)

Its on the demontweaks site but not sure if the link below will work

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ ... ode=P/PPP2

Not sure if the actual weight matters more important if side to side etc is similar on the gauge as a comparison not an actual weight


Cheers
Steve
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PostPost by: miked » Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:18 am

I tried one of these Demon teakes jobs and it works but you have to be careful not to mark your alloy wheels. Point contact! You need to spread the weight a bit with something under the tip. I tried a few things. This kept distracting me.

Re: scales. I had a go after talking on here, using 8 cheap scales (4.99). Also made up some timber run on/off platforms with ajustable legs to cater for my garage floor slight slope. I did the two scales per corner with timber across a pair, cut out for the reading. I got the advice from here. Used alloy plates on my run on/off platforms with a bit of plastic to roll back onto to settle out (side movement) after platform collar adjustment. It worked fine with good repeatabilty. It is fair bit of work and needs some patients. Should be some info' on here from old discussions.

However, I kind of agree with what Steveww said at the time. It is a light car and the use of a spirit level on the bones and careful adjustment can yield good enough result. This is what is have been doing as the scales thing takes a lot of time if your floor is poor like mine.



Mike :)
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