S-4 engine won't turn over

[Elan45]

Ginger,

We used to use ATF or brake fluid in SU and Stromburg dashpots in the shop I worked in back in the 70s. Nothing wrong there. Stromburgs have a rubber diaphram under the cover where the dashpot is located. You need to remove the 4 screws at each corner to remove the top for access. They do develop cracks in the rubber and then leak air, causing poor running.

Unfortunately, if you have debris blocking the fuel needle/seat fuel valve, you almost need to remove the carb and turn it over to be able to remove the float bowl, to get to the valve. Good Luck, Roger

[GingerClark]

What is the timing set to?

Anything will run on ether - That's why they sell it for starting cars

I don't know about the timing. I'm really hoping not to have to get that deep into the engine but will keep it in mind. I would be surprised if it changed overnight (but then I've said that before, so who knows).

You mean I could have bypassed all this by installing a can of automaticlly-squirting ether ?

[GingerClark]

Check if the plugs are wet or dry when you pull them after cranking the engine .... if dry it indicates lack of fuel. It could be the float valves are sticking .... try giving the carbs a sharp tap it may free them off.

Not the cause of your present problem but I think ATF is too thin for the dashpots, the workshop manual specifies engine oil.

The plugs were wet after cranking the engine. Bought new plugs. But, aha, haven't checked to see if the new ones are wet. That's a good idea.

I love the thought of giving the carbs a sharp tap to free them. I knew it would come to the basic Lotus guideline -- The Principle Of The Larger Hammer. I will definitely give them a small whack.

Engine oil for the Strombergs! This is great information! I searched for that info. The original owner's manual didn't seem to have it, the Workshop manual I have only shows Webers, and unless I'm not searching carefully enough, even the little book on Tuning Strombergs doesn't have that info. Where did you find it? And what viscosity do they recommend?
Thank you!

[GingerClark]

Ginger,

We used to use ATF or brake fluid in SU and Stromburg dashpots in the shop I worked in back in the 70s. Nothing wrong there. Stromburgs have a rubber diaphram under the cover where the dashpot is located. You need to remove the 4 screws at each corner to remove the top for access. They do develop cracks in the rubber and then leak air, causing poor running.

Unfortunately, if you have debris blocking the fuel needle/seat fuel valve, you almost need to remove the carb and turn it over to be able to remove the float bowl, to get to the valve. Good Luck, Roger

Hi Roger,
Okay on the ATF. It is leaking out fairly quickly on the carb closest to the front so I was thinking that viscosity might be an issue.
The engine ran smoothly the one time it was running (however briefly) which makes me think the mixture is okay (when it all arrives to the engine, that is). Although if I have to get the carbs cleaned, it'll make sense to replace each diaphram) I have an extra carb in the shed and think I'll dismantle it to see how difficult getting to the valve will be because I'm afraid that might be the next step. Thank you!

[GingerClark]

Are the diaphragms split in the carbs ?
Ian

That is a good question and one I'll have to check, although from an earlier post I understand the symptom of a cracked diaphram to be poor running and she runs beautifully but briefly. Love starter-fluid.

[oldelanman]

Engine oil for the Strombergs! This is great information! I searched for that info. The original owner's manual didn't seem to have it, the Workshop manual I have only shows Webers, and unless I'm not searching carefully enough, even the little book on Tuning Strombergs doesn't have that info. Where did you find it? And what viscosity do they recommend?
Thank you!

It's mentioned in both the workshop manual (page 15 of Technical Data) and also in the S4 Driver's Handbook on page 36 under Lubrication.

Also gets a mention in Miles Wilkins book..

[collins_dan]

I use ATF as well with no negative effects. My experience is that it helps to keep them from running too rich and coating the plugs in wet, black goo. Nice toasty light brown with ATF. Dan

[AHM]

As Roger says the oil viscosity is set to provide the correct damping. SU are very particular about this and list it in their fault finding (I don't know about Stombergs) ATF is quite a lot thinner than 20/50 isn't it?

[AHM]

I don't know about the timing. I'm really hoping not to have to get that deep into the engine but will keep it in mind. I would be surprised if it changed overnight (but then I've said that before, so who knows).
?

If the clamp is lose ......

You mean I could have bypassed all this by installing a can of automaticlly-squirting ether ?

It is called Easy Start for a reason!

[GingerClark]

It's mentioned in both the workshop manual (page 15 of Technical Data) and also in the S4 Driver's Handbook on page 36 under Lubrication.

Technical data - Stromberg carbs 002.jpg

Driver's handbooka - Stromberg carbs 003.jpg

Also gets a mention in Miles Wilkins book..

Miles Wilkins - Stromberg carbs.jpg

[/quote]

That was kind of you to provide photos of the referent pages.
As I mentioned before, the workshop manual I have has a lovely 5 pages in Section M, Fuel System, pages 7-11 on Carbs but they're Webers.
The S4 Owner's Handbook provided with my husband's S-4 Elan, has no, zero, zilch reference to the carbs other than a stapled-in added page in the service voucher book talking about servicing them at a particular number of miles. However, the owner's manual for the other S-4 sure enough has, on page 36, reference to the Strombergs. Perhaps 1969 is just about the time they began using strombergs in production? His handbook is dated 1968 whereas the other one is dated 1970
I don't have the MIles Wilkins book but in the search through my library, I re-discovered a nifty little book called, "Carburetors and Fuel Injection Systems," by Arthur Judge, which I'd forgotten about and which looks to be quite informative.
So thank you for your reply. I learned something.

[GingerClark]

Could it be clogged jets?

That is an excellent thought.
Thank you.

[GingerClark]

Thank you to all who took time to send suggestions to help fix this non-start problem.
Checked everything and it came down to the Strombergs. Sure enough, they were stuck. I had them cleaned and the fellow said the fuel smelled old. Since I'd been driving the car with only a bit of new fuel in the old and crumbling fuel cell, I wonder if somehow dregs from long ago, worked their way out of the cell and through the system. (or maybe that's reaching too far for an explanation.)
At any rate, there is nothing like the sound of an Elan that starts. Thank you again to the
knowledgeable and helpful people in this group. I'm off to fill my car with some new gas! Ginger

[StressCraxx]

Hello Ginger,

If your fuel cell has foam inside, it may have broken down and turned into dust. The fuel filter and all small passages plug very quickly.

Regards,
Dan Wise