Pre-engaged starter

[ez9]

actually my Lucas inertial starter is not working well, (no torque) and needs to be replaced, I'm quite sure it's a 9 teeth

I would like to install a pre-engaged starter in order to avoid common issues with Lucas (I've recently replaced the ring gear 110 teeth) because was badly damaged by the Lucas starter.

Searching on the forum I've find a list of compatible starter, are all of them plug & play or some of them needs some adapter plate or adjustment?

last but not least would be good to find a model available in some European shops to avoid extra costs for shipment and custom from UK or US

Denso 280-0205
Denso 128000-2340
Denso LMS 113
Powerlite RAC472MS
Powerlite RAC600
WOSP LMS484
WOSP-LMS269-9-2 (Hitachi PMGR)
WOSP LMS008-9-2 (Axial)

Bosch SR441X
Bosch SR484X

Is this list correct? are all Plug & play? any other recommendation? Am I missing any compatible model?

[alan.barker]

I would think the Ring Gear was damaged because of worn Bendix. Also the Oillite Bush in Lucas Starter worn which is cheap and very easy to renew.
After fitting new Bendix and new Bush it should be ok for several Years.
Alan

[alanr]

If you are going to change to a hi-torque starter motor I can highly recommend the Powerlite RAC 472MS.

Do though ensure you order The MS version which give you flexibility of multi -hole adjustment to the end plate to suit your car.
The RAC 472 non-MS unit may place the unit too close to the sump which it did for me.

Once you have fitted a Hi-torque unit you won't want to go back to the old inertia starter. The difference in the speed it turns the engine over is like night and day.

Alan.

[ez9]

@alan.barker
not easy and cheap to find in Italy someone that can repair a Lucas inertial starter

@Alanr
thanks for the tips, I don't really need and hi-torque, unfortunately this Powerlite are available only in UK shops.
What about the Denso?

any model Plug & play or they need some adapter plate?

[alanr]

@Alanr
thanks for the tips, I don't really need and hi-torque, unfortunately this Powerlite are available only in UK shops.
What about the Denso?

any model Plug & play or they need some adapter plate?

I suggest you send Powerlite the manufacturer of these Hi-Toque units an email or alternatively call them. I am sure they would ship one to Italy for you. Better deal with them direct than dealers.
https://www.powerlite-units.com/high-to ... otors.html

You don't need any adaptor or anything else if you order the RAC472MS. It will fit straight out of the box.
Other makes of starter I have no knowledge of.

Alan.

[ericbushby]

I agree with Alan`s recommendation.
I fitted the RAC 472 so long ago that I do not remember when it was and I cannot find the invoice. It could be eight years since. It was a bit close to the sump but apparently that has been changed now.
Two screws and one wire and it is done. It took longer to lift the car onto stands that it did to fit the new starter.
The Elan now cranks and starts much like a modern car. If the engine just fires once it does not throw the bendix out of engagement like the Lucas one did.
About three times the cranking speed in cold weather and current reduced from 190 Amps to 160 Amps.
Interestingly the starter engages with the starter ring from the other side because it pushes the pinion outwards.
It does not matter if the ring teeth are not chamfered on that side. I queried this with Powerlite at the time and they assured me that it was OK.
Eric in Burnley
1967 S3SE DHC

[alan.barker]

Hi ez9,
Very easy to fit Bendex yourself and also the Oillite Bush. Lots of suppliers in UK that will post the small package to Italy.
Personal choice of course.
Same Starter as the Minis used in the Italien Job .
Alan

[rgh0]

Bosch made a 3 bolt preengage starter for the 1600 Escort that is a direct bolt in fit using the 2 bolt holes that match the Elans mounting. I got mine secondhand but I am sure new ones must exist today. The third mounting hole can be left vacant or half cut off if you want / need extra clearance. They came with both 9 tooth and 10 tooth pinions of the correct diameter to match the ford ring gear with the standard Ford one being 10 tooth but new 9 tooth pinons as used by Lotus were available. I used these rather than the various versions that are sold with adapters by various sellers in my Elan and Plus2. The same starter was used in Mazdas of the period. Many of the new preengage units have issues with fit, with problems with inadequate throw or not indexing to fix and stop the solenoid founing the engine block so purchase with care or with inadequate strength in the bolts that match the adapter plate causing flexing. So purchase with care and read up all the issues reported here and elsewhere

here is a link to a used one.

https://oldtimer-shop.eu/product/ford-c ... 9M0ZrCyTNr

cheers
Rohan

[2cams70]

Bosch made a 3 bolt preengage starter for the 1600 Escort that is a direct bolt in fit using the 2 bolt holes that match the Elans mounting. I got mine secondhand but I am sure new ones must exist today. The third mounting hole can be left vacant or half cut off if you want / need extra clearance. They came with both 9 tooth and 10 tooth pinions of the correct diameter to match the ford ring gear with the standard Ford one being 10 tooth but new 9 tooth pinons as used by Lotus were available. I used these rather than the various versions that are sold with adapters by various sellers in my Elan and Plus2. The same starter was used in Mazdas of the period. Many of the new preengage units have issues with fit, with problems with inadequate throw or not indexing to fix and stop the solenoid founing the engine block so purchase with care or with inadequate strength in the bolts that match the adapter plate causing flexing. So purchase with care and read up all the issues reported here and elsewhere

here is a link to a used one.

https://oldtimer-shop.eu/product/ford-c ... 9M0ZrCyTNr

cheers
Rohan

A pre-engaged starter was used on LHD Escorts and Escorts with automatic transmission. I'd be very surprised if Mazda used the same starter but I could be wrong.

[alanr]

The Denso style Hi-torque starters of today are of a totally different breed to the old Bosch pre-engaged starter of yesterday that were fitted on Escorts etc.
They are a lighter unit in weight and spin the engine over a lot quicker.

Alan

[2cams70]

The Denso style Hi-torque starters of today are of a totally different breed to the old Bosch pre-engaged starter of yesterday that were fitted on Escorts etc.
They are a lighter unit in weight and spin the engine over a lot quicker.

Alan

The Bosch starter is OEM and proven to be reliable. No point in spinning an engine at 10,000 RPM on the starter if you only need 100 RPM to actually start it.

[alan.barker]

If it spins the engine over at 10,000 rpm you can put it in gear and you have an electric car lol. All be it with the Classic look
Alan

[rgh0]

[quote="2cams70"
A pre-engaged starter was used on LHD Escorts and Escorts with automatic transmission. I'd be very surprised if Mazda used the same starter but I could be wrong.[/quote].

I beleive it was the Mazda 626 and Ford Telstar that were basicvally the same car and used the same starter in the 70's when Ford owned a 25% stake in Mazda
and