Lotus Elan

Cartridge water pumps

PostPost by: tvacc » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:15 pm

I do have a 3rd Elan here, a Coupe that I will be rebuilding with my son as I can no longer do heavy or high torque stuff on cars any longer. I will be putting a Bean pump on that. If anyone wants to buy either of my two original early casting front covers, let me know.
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PostPost by: elanner » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:10 pm

2cams70 wrote:This improvement didn't of course get carried through to the LTC. I believe the Bean cartridge is designed using this larger bearing. The Burton cartridge is not.


I thought it was the other way around with the Bean cartridge using the regular LTC water pump and the Burton one using the larger bearing. https://www.burtonpower.com/burton-wate ... fl860.html says that parts cannot be mixed with OEM items.

After some messing about with back plates during my recent water pump replacement, along with shipping delays and some other timing issues, I ended up using a Bean backplate that Russ (CBUEB1771) had in his stock of parts. This is a very nice & strong piece, milled from a solid lump, not cast. It's not going anywhere. It took the standard LTC pump and front cover. Of course, Bean may have changed things since Russ purchased it (I don't know how long he'd had it).

As an aside, I also decided to cut & use backplate-to-front-cover gaskets as described in Brian Buckland's book. Brian suggests 30 thou gasket material but I didn't read that until after I'd cut 15 thou gaskets (the same as the block-to-backplate gaskets). So far, after a few hundred miles, the joint is completely dry.

If the engine doesn't sprout a leak soon I may have to resort to spraying oil on the chassis by hand. How else to prevent rust? Just kidding, I have a galvanized chassis and, anyway, the speedo angle drive is manfully stepping up to the task of spreading oil around the underneath. :-)

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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:29 am

Having fitted one I can confirm that the water pump bearing in the Burton cartridge is the same as that used in the standard front cover. I believe the Bean cartridge uses the later larger type Ford bearing but having never seen one in the flesh I cannot confirm 100%

I don't agree with using two gaskets when one (as it was originally designed) will do. Too many gaskets mean the cover will require re-tensioning over time as the gaskets relax and it also makes the flanges more prone to warpage.

After quite a bit of trial and error I've finally settled on minimally applied Threebond 1215 Silicone as the best sealant to use between the backplate and front cover. I tried anaerobic Loctite 518 but wasn't completely satisfied. Due to large overhangs from the block plus the tightening forces from those 3 head to timing cover bolts those aluminium flanges are pretty flexible and not rigid enough for Loctite 518. Loctite 518 doesn't adhere very well and it doesn't flex very well. The 1215 silicone is much better here in my opinion.
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PostPost by: fatboyoz » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:25 pm

Hi HCA,
I have had this kit fitted for the last ten years or so. The belt can be run quite loose.

https://www.burtonpower.com/water-pump- ... 225dk.html

Cheers,
Colin




quote="HCA"]I am, if I do not go cartridge, thinking of a ribbed belt - good idea or no?[/quote]
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PostPost by: Donels » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:03 pm

I have the Burton cartridge water pump and the toothed belt drive. But cannot comment on either as the engine is still out but both appear to be well engineered by whoever designed them.

A4D30A53-F13C-42EB-89C0-7DBBA75F6666.jpeg and
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PostPost by: HCA » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:19 pm

fatboyoz wrote:Hi HCA,
I have had this kit fitted for the last ten years or so. The belt can be run quite loose.

https://www.burtonpower.com/water-pump- ... 225dk.html

Cheers,
Colin




quote="HCA"]I am, if I do not go cartridge, thinking of a ribbed belt - good idea or no?
[/quote]
Thanks Colin and Donels - yep, exactly that one I have booked marked. Maybe expensive but not as much as the conversion, and by all accounts if the pump is basically good, maybe a cheap price to pay to protect its weak spot.
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:31 pm

Donels wrote:I have the Burton cartridge water pump and the toothed belt drive


You fortunately missed a lot of the fitment issues associated with the Burton pump by using a toothed belt system. I'd be interested to know what the gearing ratio is though with that toothed drive - i.e crank speed to water pump to alternator speed ratio. It doesn't look like the standard ratio which may or may not make it ok for a road engine.
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PostPost by: mfast » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:36 am

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Last edited by mfast on Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:39 am

mfast wrote:Tony IngramLotus7.comOn sale $695Superior O ring design


That one is the Burton pump.
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PostPost by: Andy8421 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:18 am

Donels wrote:I have the Burton cartridge water pump and the toothed belt drive. But cannot comment on either as the engine is still out but both appear to be well engineered by whoever designed them.

A4D30A53-F13C-42EB-89C0-7DBBA75F6666.jpeg

Can the belt tensioning bracket on the top of the alternator be fitted the other way up? If so, it might make for a neater installation - it looks a bit strange the way you have it fitted.
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PostPost by: TBG » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:33 pm

Just fit a twin pulley to drive the alternator and a separate loose one to drive the water pump. No failures in around 80k miles................
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PostPost by: mbell » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:31 am

Does any one sell a dual crank shaft pulley of the shelf?
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PostPost by: TBG » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:29 am

I just had one turned up by a good engineering firm - works a treat!! Note - you need an extended alternator pulley also. I will look out my old drawings and post them.
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PostPost by: TBG » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:09 am

Here we go!!! These are my original drawings. I hope that they make sense! Lining up the alternator is a bit of fiddling here and there with washers and spacers and so on – but very simple. Just needs to be spot on to avoid belt wear. I gave the machine shop and old crank shaft pulley to copy to get all the dimensions right and all they had to do was machine the new one up with a second pulley grove. I enclose a couple of photographs to give you idea. You have to take the water pump pulley off to fit the belt.
Good luck!

Alternator pulley.03.jpg and
Alernator pulley.02.jpg and
Alternator pulley.01.jpg and
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PostPost by: mbell » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:13 pm

TBG wrote:I just had one turned up by a good engineering firm - works a treat!!


Ok thanks. At some point I plan to fit ac to my car, so will need a dual pulley for that. I was hoping to avoid the hassle off getting one made but can get that done if needed.
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