Low Oil pressure.

PostPost by: billwill » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:57 am

Alas I haven't used my S3 since last August and when I tried the engine last week, at first it didn't create any oil pressure, then it was OK for a few minutes & then went down to zero pressure, so I somewhat hastily turned it off.

I suspect the most likely candidate for the problem is the relief valve stuck open by some gunge, so when I've got some flushing oil (and some proper oil) delivered I intend to take the oil pump off & give it a thorough clean, then use the flushing oil and if all goes well the proper oil later.

Does this sound like the best approach?

Bit of a b**g*r really as I'll have to lift the front of the car inside my narrow garage, without engine power to drive onto some ramps, so that I can get underneath to access the pump and the drain plug. And due to the virus lockdown, I can't ask anyone to help either. I don't have a car lift.

Hey ho.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5060
Joined: 19 Apr 2008

PostPost by: ericbushby » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:45 am

Hi Bill,
It might just be worth replacing the oil filter.
I believe that I had one collapse internally once. It was about 50 miles after an oil and filter change when the pressure reduced gradually over about two miles.
I recovered the car to home and did a lot of work investigating, but it was after I changed the filter agaln that pressure was restored.
It was quite a while before I watched the speedo more than the oil pressure.
Best of luck
Eric in Burnley
1967 S3SE DHC
ericbushby
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1349
Joined: 13 Jun 2011

PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:57 am

Dumb ass question but did you check the oil level? Also you can easily access the pressure relief valve after removing the filter. Check that it's correctly seated and see if it moves freely by gently levering it upward with a screwdriver. You don't have to remove the pump from the engine to do this
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
1980 Ford Escort 2.0 Ghia
Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2022 Ford Fiesta ST.
2cams70
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2046
Joined: 10 Jun 2015

PostPost by: ericbushby » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:14 am

Bill,
Just another quick thought.
I believe you have a modern starter motor fitted. If you take the plugs out the starter should take it up the ramps. Maybe!!
Let us know how you get on.
Eric
ericbushby
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1349
Joined: 13 Jun 2011

PostPost by: 512BB » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:48 am

Now that is a bummer Bill. As you no doubt realise, its a lot of work to remove an oil pump in situ. Engine has to be moved over to get it out and all the work that involves.

Had low oil pressure on an engine I built a couple of years ago. It could not possibly have been the workmanship, as that was faultless :roll: So it was either the new oil pump or a faulty gauge, which was original. My guess was the new oil pump, but before removing that, I plumbed in a spare gauge, same result, low lbs. Replaced with the original from new oil pump, lbs restored.

I will send you my spare gauge Bill if you want to try it. No deposit required :lol: I have a few new oil filters laying around, if you want to fit one of them at the same time, £s required.

Moral of the story. If you rebuild an engine and you know that the old oil pump was sound, refit it. New no name oil pump quality is utter crap.

Leslie
512BB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1117
Joined: 24 Jan 2008

PostPost by: billwill » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:30 pm

I did check the oil level, it was down a bit, but not serious; about half way between the FULL and FILL marks. What was most worrying was that by looking through the oil filler cap the cam chamber looked rather dry.

I haven't any spare unused oil, so I'm going to order some.

I hadn't realised that there isn't enough clearance to get the oil pump out without moving the engine, that's a b****r.

My starter is a standard Lucas type, but I could try spinning it with no plugs after I've had a bi of a fiddle with the relief valve.

There's a LONG Lotus type oil filer on at present, but I have a short spare one, which I was going to use with flushing oil, so I can try swapping to this new one. I don't think the problem is the gauge itself, because it worked for part of the checking & then went down to zero bobbing about a bit. It's relatively new :-) the gauge was changed around 2001 :-) It's a capillary type of course being an S3 Coupe.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5060
Joined: 19 Apr 2008

PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:53 pm

From memory, I think with the oil filter off you can see the piston for the relief valve - then determine if it’s stuck open.
1966 Elan S3 Coupe
1994 Caterham 7
englishmaninwales
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 747
Joined: 26 Jul 2013

PostPost by: h20hamelan » Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:00 pm

englishmaninwales wrote:From memory, I think with the oil filter off you can see the piston for the relief valve - then determine if it’s stuck open.


Do you have an inspection camera, or a good light to shine up using an old mirror
Born, and brought home from the hospital (no seat belt (wtf)) in a baby!
Find out where the limits are, and start from there
Love your Mother
Earth
User avatar
h20hamelan
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: 25 Sep 2010

PostPost by: billwill » Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:34 pm

Luckily I have one of those tiny round cameras that you plug into a laptop for inspecting nooks & crannies etc such as through the plug hole into the firing chamber.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5060
Joined: 19 Apr 2008

PostPost by: benymazz » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:35 pm

Throwing ideas out there - if it's not the relief valve it's possible that the pickup tube has come unthreaded. I can't speak for how the pickup works for the 6 bolt engines as I believe it's different than the 4 bolts but on my 4 bolt engines at least the pickup pipe (the one with the strainer attached to the end) screws into the block and has a locktab washer that's intended to prevent it from loosening.

-Ben
1965 S2 26/4623
Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.
"I'm never gonna financially recover from this"
benymazz
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 172
Joined: 11 Jul 2016

PostPost by: billwill » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:43 pm

Mine is a 4 bolt engine bottom part. Not sure why as I think it's manufacturing date was well after the switch to 6 bolt, however I haven't double checked that date.

I haven't modified the cross support to be removable, so I hope it isn't your diagnosis as it will involve engine out or do that mod, to get the sump pan off.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5060
Joined: 19 Apr 2008

PostPost by: RichardHawkins » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:24 pm

Bill,

My car is a 1968 S4 FHC. This car has a 6 bolt crank, the oil pick up pipe is a force fit into the block.

Hope this helps,

Richard Hawkins
RichardHawkins
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: 05 Jul 2008

PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:20 pm

My S3 had a ‘cross over’ block with a 4 bolt crank and a push in pick up. The push in type it cannot come out as the sump will prevent it.
Is the oil pump a modern replacement? My Burton supplied replacement the release valve piston was tight and needed fettling to ensure it wouldn’t stick open.
1966 Elan S3 Coupe
1994 Caterham 7
englishmaninwales
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 747
Joined: 26 Jul 2013

PostPost by: alan.barker » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:27 am

I have removed an Oil Pump with Engine in Car. You just need to remove the 2 Screws that go through the Engine Mounting and Chassis Lug. With a spreader under the Sump use a Jack to adjust height of Engine on Oil Pump side so the Oil Pump clears the Chassis Flange.
Alan
Last edited by alan.barker on Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: 06 Dec 2008

PostPost by: pharriso » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:18 am

alan.barker wrote:I have removed an Oil Pump with Engine in Car. Yuo just need to remove the 2 Screws that go through the Engine Mounting and Chassis Lug. With a spreader under the Sump use a Jack to adjust height of Engine on Oil Pump side so the Oil Pump clears the Chassis Flange.
Alan


Agreed, just changed my pump this way, took an hour start to finish, mind you carbs were off...
Phil Harrison
1972 Elan Sprint 0260K
User avatar
pharriso
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3596
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests