Lotus Elan

+2S Engine removal to fix oil leaks

PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:35 pm

It is certainly possible to remove the engine and gearbox as a single unit .... just a pain to do it that way IMHO... much easier to split the engine and gear box. Refitting the engine to the gear box in situ needs care but is easy to do if done with care.

i.e.
centre the clutch plate carefully using a suitable alignment tool with the flywheel pilot bearing
ensure the engine and gear box shafts are aligned and parallel
slide the engine onto the gear box shaft and jiggle until the splines engage
a couple of long bolts help to pull the engine and gear box together but do it carefully and don't use excess force on the bolts

other prefer other ways but just my 40 years and many many engine changes of experience worth

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7512
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: JonB » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:16 pm

I won't be challenging your wisdom!

As I am some way away from actually doing this (still got to fix that suspension mount spindle - a hitch already occurred), I will give it some more thought. If I can get to the bell housing bolts easily enough (have not tried yet, and of course there is the issue of not being as flexible as I used to be) then that would be the way to go, for sure.

But I may attempt to remove it all as one, just to see how easy / hard it is. In any case, I need to disconnect the propshaft, so I may as well try..
User avatar
JonB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2104
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Location: South Coast, UK

PostPost by: JonB » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:51 pm

A couple more questions, if I may...

  • My engine has a sort of plate attached to the back that covers the back of the head. It means that accessing the top bolts for the bell housing is nigh on impossible with it in situ. Can't see it on the parts diagram, is it standard?
  • I've read that the gearbox leaks fluid through the rear when you tilt it. Does it not have a proper lipped oil seal? Again, not shown on the parts diagram.
User avatar
JonB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2104
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Location: South Coast, UK

PostPost by: Hawksfield » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:43 pm

JonB

If you slacken the two top bell housing bolts a couple of turns it will pull out

If you are leaving the box In when removing the engine it will not leak otherwise yes.
Regards

John

+2s130 1971
User avatar
Hawksfield
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 387
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Location: Hartlepool Teesside

PostPost by: JonB » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:13 pm

Those bots are not accessible. There's a plate in the way. I'll post a picture tomorrow.
User avatar
JonB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2104
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Location: South Coast, UK

PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:38 pm

The 4 speed box has a sliding spline on its output shaft that comes out when you remove it so it leaks all its oil out. The 5 speed has a fixed output shaft so it does not.

The plate may be part of the radio noise suppression system fitted on some cars. There was alos a top plate that covered the spark plug well.

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7512
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: miked » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:42 pm

If you have the engine mounts split a engine supported it will move forward slightly allowing that bit more access to get at the bolts. Same true of reinstalling, do up your bellhousing from above and below before sitting back into final postion. Good quality open ended spanner and even an extension tube to slacken.
Mike
Mike

Elan S4 Zetec
BSA B33
Suzuki Hustler T250
BMW rninet scrambler
Suzuki TC120R trailcat
Suzuki TC120 trailcat
Suzuki K11 super sport
User avatar
miked
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1178
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Location: Northwest UK

PostPost by: mbell » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:22 pm

rgh0 wrote: The 5 speed has a fixed output shaft so it does not.


But it can leak from the geartstick hole if you aren't careful. I had this issue when pulling the box out far enough to get to the prop shaft bolts. So less of an issue with Spyder chassis.

Good opportunity to drain box and fill with redline...
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
mbell
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1667
Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Austin, TX (UK Ex-pat)

PostPost by: JonB » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:22 am

The Redline is sitting on a shelf ready!
User avatar
JonB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2104
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Location: South Coast, UK

PostPost by: JonB » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:40 am

Here is a picture of the plate I was talking about.

inkedimg_4596_li.jpg and


I can't get at the bell housing top bolts with it in place - or, I need to undo all the mounts, take the propshaft flange bolts off, disconnect the reverse light switch wires and clutch pipe, then move the engine & gearbox forward. This may give enough access.

Speaking of leaks, I noticed the oil cap is leaking. A new rubber seal is peanuts (about ?3) but I thought I'd take the old one out and have a look at it. It's got an indentation in it where the lip of the cam cover has been pressing against it. Seemed I could flip the seal over and get some more life out of it, so I tried it. We'll see if it makes any difference!
User avatar
JonB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2104
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Location: South Coast, UK

PostPost by: Orsom Weels » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:48 am

Jon, if the plate is aluminium, it is, as Rohan suggests, probably part of the factory radio suppression system. It should have slotted holes as Hawskfield says, so you only need to just slacken the bolts & it should pull out. My +2 has the plate, & whilst it is a bit tight, there is enough room to get a long spanner in there. It is a job made much easier if you remove the head before engine removal, but can be done without. In reality, there's only very little more room without the plate in situ.

Regards, Tim
Orsom Weels
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 492
Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Location: Norfolk, UK

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:18 am

Jon

oil cap leaks....

a small piece of ali and half an hour...

lotus-twincam-f39/oil-cap-leaking-lot-t31437.html#p210521

John :wink:
User avatar
john.p.clegg
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5690
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

PostPost by: JonB » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:05 am

Nice. But doesn't it rattle around?

I reviewed the thread and will check the breather pipe for excessive pressure. I've got a carb flow meter which might be able to measure it. I'm pretty sure my breather is leaking too, it used to have Jubilee clips round it (as shown in a photo of the engine way back when the car was blue) but they've since gone.

The dip stick looks OK, I can't see any oil getting pushed past it.

However, I think a lot of the oil comes from the back of the timing chest seal... but the starter motor has oil dripping off it, which "might be the cap if I am really lucky". Which I doubt! :evil:
User avatar
JonB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2104
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Location: South Coast, UK

PostPost by: billwill » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:49 pm

JonB wrote:A couple more questions, if I may...

  • My engine has a sort of plate attached to the back that covers the back of the head. It means that accessing the top bolts for the bell housing is nigh on impossible with it in situ. Can't see it on the parts diagram, is it standard?
  • I've read that the gearbox leaks fluid through the rear when you tilt it. Does it not have a proper lipped oil seal? Again, not shown on the parts diagram.



The plate was for radio noise suppression, used when the plug leads used to go around the back and in under the 'bridge' at the back of the head. It serves no useful purpose if you don't use a radio or your spark leads go over the top.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4721
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:14 am

I?ve removed my engine several times and always do it with the head on, mines a four speed box and I?ve only removed it once which I did once the engine was out. Once the engine is on the hoist and the ancillaries removed and the engine mounts out, dropping the engine a little gives more room to get to the top two bell housing bolts, especially with a Spyder chassis where you can remove the cross member.
My biggest problem was always getting the tubular exhaust manifold in and in the end I changed out the exhaust studs and fitted Allen head cap screws. I know I?ll get comments on the thread failing in the head, but it?s a unc thread and you don?t normally have to undo them more that a handful of times in the life of the car so the threads should be fine. I?ve not had any problems. A good clutch alignment tool is vital if fitting the engine with the gearbox already in the car. With a four speed box, don?t for get to drain and refill the box with oil if you take it out!
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine!
Bigbaldybloke
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 665
Joined: 16 May 2017
Location: Lincolnshire
PreviousNext

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests