Lotus Elan

Permatex 80017 Gasket No. 3

PostPost by: el-saturn » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:00 pm

hi everybody - i am considering to use this sealant for the back plate gasket and put some on a piece of paper. it has been 5 hrs! curing takes 24h according to the spec sheet. so far it's still moist! does this really get dry?? ill wait another 20 hrs BUT some of you use this. with epoxy and polyester you know when it has cured! looking forward to hearing from some users!! sandy
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:23 pm

I use this on all the paper and cork gaskets when building a twin cam. I becomes tacky in about 10 minutes after application on the gasket and then the gaskets can be fitted and the assembly done. It never really goes completely hard so it seals with differential expansion between the components. For the cam cover I only put it on the cover side so it sticks there but the cover can be removed and replaced without changing the cork gasket. On other gaskets such as timing cover back plate and sump I apply it both sides.

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PostPost by: Hawksfield » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:12 pm

Hi Sandy

I use this and to the procedure as described by Rohan, my present engine at the moment has no leaks :) and I am pleased with the results for Permatex products.

However I wish I could find a solution to the occasional leak I get from the front lip seal, I've even fitted a new pulley without success.
Another problem I now get is rusty sump and other fixing nuts and bolts :cry:

Good luck with your rebuild
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John

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PostPost by: diablo » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:18 am

Try speedi-sleeve from SKF on your pulley , I got them via ebay from Bearing shop . Work well on an old motobike BMW ( 1932 ) .
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:13 am

Is this the same as "Form a Gasket"?

https://www.permatex.com/products/gaske ... nt-liquid/

This is what I am intending to use on (and between) my (Burton) front cover.

It looks, smells and feels identical to Wellseal. Although considerable dearer!
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:14 am

Yes same stuff just different branding in different markets

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PostPost by: Hawksfield » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:46 am

Diablo

Thanks, just ordered a sleeve from bearingsrus I will sleeve up my original pulley and see how it goes
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:53 am

If the front cover is not centered on the crank then the front seal will always leak. Putting a sleeve on the pulley shaft will increase the compression on the seal lips and may help the seal but the seal will eventually wear with the increased pressure.

Even if the front cover is centered when assembling, it tends to creep overtime with the differential thermal expansion between the block and the aluminium cover and all the bolt loads especially those pulling up to the head

Shaft vibration especially at high revs in a racing engine and crankcase pressure also tend to push oil out the seal.

I can build an engine that will stay oil tight in road use at this front seal for a reasonable time but with race use that time becomes very short :(


Keith of sidedraft_central fame and his obsession to build a twin cam that runs on carbs but feels as good as a modern fuel injection system and does not leak oil like a modern Japanese car has made a frame to hold the front cover centered on the crank despite the loads and thermal expansion issues to help stop the front seal leaks

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PostPost by: nmauduit » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:15 am

Hawksfield wrote:Diablo

Thanks, just ordered a sleeve from bearingsrus I will sleeve up my original pulley and see how it goes


can you quote the part number, I may stock one up just in case as I'm planning to have a look at that end of the crank ? thank you
S4SE 36/8198
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PostPost by: Hawksfield » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:45 pm

nmauduit

Hi From bearings r us ?23.35

99144 SKF Speedi Sleeve For 36.53mm/1.438" Shaft 99144 SKF
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PostPost by: Hawksfield » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:07 pm

Rohan

Thanks for the info on the leaky seal, as usual nothing is straight forward with a twin cam.
I centralised the cover on refitting during a rebuild and it was as you say ok for a time. It does not leak all the time just occasionally, maybe its a combination hot weather and a good spirited drive to cause it to leak.

Maybe I am expecting to much as the small amount is not a big deal, I just like things to be correct.

I will fit the sleeve to my spare pulley and then consider my actions, this pulley has a running wear mark anyway

Thanks again for your support
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:42 pm

Hawksfield wrote:nmauduit

Hi From bearings r us ?23.35

99144 SKF Speedi Sleeve For 36.53mm/1.438" Shaft 99144 SKF


thank you John
S4SE 36/8198
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:24 pm

New pulleys are available quite cheaply from Burtons or QED. When I pulled my engine down someone previously had used a speedy sleeve and the result was a disaster. Heavy grooving or the sleeve, worn seal and massive oil leak.

If you want to retain the original cast pulley it would be better to weld it and re-machine or maybe use a slightly thinner seal so that the seal lip can be positioned so it touches an unworn part of the seal seating area on the pulley.
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:05 am

I agree with 2 cams.

Why spend nigh on ?25 on a sleeve when you can get a new pulley for about ?40?
http://qedmotorsport.co.uk/qed-shop/lot ... dard-steel
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:55 am

vincereynard wrote:I agree with 2 cams.

Why spend nigh on ?25 on a sleeve when you can get a new pulley for about ?40?
http://qedmotorsport.co.uk/qed-shop/lot ... dard-steel


As I said above fitting a sleeve will put the seal lip into more compression and help compensate for an eccentric mount of seal versus shaft. This will help stop a leak for a time that fitting a new pulley will not do. How long this will last is the question but replacing the seal and sleeve if they wear excessively is easy and quick and does not require the front cover to be dismantled and reassembled so it is worth a try I would believe if you wanted to stop a front pulley leak and did not want to pull the engine to do the front cover.

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