Lotus Elan

De spydering Part 1

PostPost by: vincereynard » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:02 pm

The aim is to have Toad rebuilt in time for Castle Coombe so here goes.

First job is to tackle the major oil leak(s?) The mess is mainly down the right side viewed from the front.
A major plus was the cam cover came of with little persuasion.

The plan is to clean it up as best as can be. Dust it with fine talc and run the engine in the hope of the leak becoming obvious. I've already found a couple of the front cover socket head bolts loose.

1/ After honking out the radiator and cleaning off the grime, it first became clear that all is not well with the posh Burton Water Pump Cartridge. It is stiff and squeaky to turn. It's also fairly off true in it's running. (Looked at side on its wobbly!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khq3zfP ... e=youtu.be

I imagine that the water lubricates to an extent but surely not that much?? Normal or another example of
Spyder build quality? (Another day another Spyder.........) Are there any problems in taking out the cartridge? Easy - that's the point is it not?

2/ The front crank oil seal is another possible leak candidate. Can anyone suggest an easy way of taking off the front pulley. I know the tyre lever trick but I'm a bit doubtful about the alloy front cover. Anyone know of a suitable puller.

It's a start anyway.

Vince
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PostPost by: c42 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:31 pm

Hi Vince, could be wrong but it sounds like the pully is rubbing - have you tried turning the pump with the pulley off?

John
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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:21 pm

The fixing cap heads for the Burton pump need the edge chamfering to avoid rubbing the underside of the pulley rim. They are supplied with some chamfering but mine required more.

To remove the pump, if found necessary, there are 3 bolt holes to screw in bolts to 'jack' the pump out of the front cover. To refit, new O rings are available from Burton.
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:02 pm

Thanks for the replies chaps. I am hoping it is just the usual poor assembly.

I'll whip the pulley off tomorrow and any contact should be obvious.
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PostPost by: mikealdren » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:38 am

Hi Vince,
Disappointing about the cartridge but I'm not sure how Spyder could be to blame, even if they fitted it.

The original water pump had a generally short life and is not straightforward to replace so Burton (and others IIRC) created replacements with cartridges that could be easily replaced. The replaceable cartridge implies (at least to me) that it isn't expected to last forever!

Other solutions included toothed belts that reduced the side load on the bearings.

Mike
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:08 pm

englishmaninwales wrote:The fixing cap heads for the Burton pump need the edge chamfering to avoid rubbing the underside of the pulley rim. They are supplied with some chamfering but mine required more.


Malcolm
The pulley is no where near the chamfered bolt heads. The whole pulley is about 11mm too far forward.
(And not square.)
screenhunter_184-mar.-02-11.43.jpg and

screenhunter_185-mar.-02-11.43.jpg and



mikealdren wrote:Hi Vince,
I'm not sure how Spyder could be to blame, even if they fitted it.
Mike

Mike,
I think one can expect an alleged specialist to at least do a competent job. PM me and I'll give you a long list of mistakes ranging from the merely lazy bodges to the downright dangerous. As I mentioned previously, every new job seems to throw up another example.
screenhunter_186-mar.-02-11.47.jpg and


Their excuses are two fold.
1/ There is nothing wrong.
2/ If that fails - it was the previous owner..

Even if a job was subcontracted, they took the money, who else is to blame?

Vince
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:57 pm

Vince
My AKS pump module uses countersunk screws...looks like you need some.

John :wink:
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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:27 pm

Vince
I had to press the pulley flange onto the pump shaft further than for an original pump, as you have discovered, to make the alignment correct. That then required the chamfering of the cap head bolts to clear the pulley.

Clearly the pulley is not fouling the cap heads in your case! (I surprised the drive belt stayed on!!)
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:09 am

Malcolm,

Thanks, that was a question I was about to ask you. Presumably the Burton pump is deeper so the shaft extends further towards the radiator. I assumed that the pulley would have to be pressed further back.
Quite how they managed to get it off square is a worry!
Understandable mistakes for a bunch of amateurs?

I've now discovered that (surprise! surprise!) the Cam Timing is also out.
An understandable mistake for a bunch of amateurs perhaps. (X2)

Still at least it means I've got the cam cover off!

Seriously there is a great car hiding under these layers of shoddy bodging and I intend to dig it out. However Castle Coombe is becoming a bit out of focus!

Vince
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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:35 pm

It would be impossible to fit the flange off centre, I rather suspect the shaft is bent.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:03 pm

If the water pump pulley is binding as it is turned by hand and its not hitting the casing or bolts then something is wrong on the inside. The bearing has failed or the impeller is hitting the casing as it has been installed with inadequate clearance to the front cover carrier. It is also possible for the pump impeller to hit the opening in the block if it is not centred due to casting and machining variations.

cheers
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:16 pm

englishmaninwales wrote:It would be impossible to fit the flange off centre, I rather suspect the shaft is bent.

Sadly I rather suspect you are correct. They probably hammered the flange on!

rgh0 wrote:If the water pump pulley is binding as it is turned by hand and its not hitting the casing or bolts then something is wrong on the inside. The bearing has failed or the impeller is hitting the casing as it has been installed with inadequate clearance to the front cover carrier. It is also possible for the pump impeller to hit the opening in the block if it is not centred due to casting and machining variations.

cheers
Rohan


Strange thing is sometimes it does not bind. It does not spin easily but that could be normal as part of the water seal? Either way I guess it will have to come out.

Bug*er!!
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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:28 pm

The Burton pump assembly is easily removed (unless standing several years with no coolant) and the cause should be easily determined.
Rohan mentions casting variations; the Burton front cover supplied to me had the core for the coolant passageway to the pump off centre, resulting in the timing chain fouling the inside of the casting. :roll:
Having said that, once the front cover was modified, fitted correctly, in service the pump is fine.
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PostPost by: billwill » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:42 am

Either way I guess it will have to come out.

Bug*er!!


I echo Malcolm message, the Burton pump is easyish to get out as it has its own built-in puller.

You may need a new waterpump repair kit if the shaft is bent.

The pulley flange can be puled off with a 3 legged puller and can be pressed back on with a big bench vice, provided that you use something strong like a socket spanner to press the back end of the shaft.

Be very careful that you do not push the impeller too far onto the shaft, when you do that bit, because there is no easy way to get it off the shaft again and you basically have to start all over from the beginning again.

There are messages on this website somewhere describing in detail the repair of the waterpump.
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