Lotus Elan

Engine hot off the dyno!

PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:11 pm

We dynoed with and without the filter connected to the air box. It made no difference in results. We were using a long trunking hose and K&N filter at the end. The filter part is thus apparently no problem. I understand the stock circular air filter is problematic - I will be removing from the car and storing it (for originality if someone after me wants it).

The air box/backplate is the squarish S4/Sprint one.
'69 Elan S4 SE
Street 181 BHP
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PostPost by: el-saturn » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:19 pm

.....................for someone after me............................ i hate that terminology BECAUSE after me aint gonna be my JR. -------------- and much more less her ----------------------- therefore dreadful deductions sandy: goin' fer a ride tamorrah, even though it should be winter ............ 36 4982
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PostPost by: ceejay » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:05 am

Hi Guys

The discussion about air box and filter canister takes me
back to the year of 1984 which was near the end of the
ground up rebuild of my S2. (First time around)

The following items did not come with the car:
Air box backing plate.
Fibreglass air box front
Canister To Air Box Trunking.
Air filter element & canister.
Ram tubes for the webers.

There were not the Lotus parts suppliers around then as there
are now, so if something could be made to fit, that was the route
we took.

Solution to the missing parts:
Make a hammer form to recreate sheet metal backing plate.
Make a mould to recreate a larger fibreglass air box cover.
Purchase length of trunking.
Cannibalise air filter from Triumph 2000.
(Modified with extra breathing holes)
Make mandrels and formers to produce ram tubes for the webers.

If you think this took more than a weekend to complete you'd be right,
there were many weeks of solid hand forming, fibre glassing,
machining, metal spinning and trial fitting before it all came together.

The hammer form is the only tooling I have left over from the projects
from long ago. You'll note that the air box is wider and not tapered
as per original elan air boxes, even in 1984 I was of the opinion
that the original air box looked wrong, and possibly did not allow enough
airflow for each cylinder, and my engine tuning whiz, the late
Clive McDonald agreed on that, so the set up as shown in the pics
is what I have had on my elan for the past thirty years or so, and
the TC has performed extremely well.

Re the ram rubes, I actually made a mistake with the ram tube length, but my
engine tuner Clive said no probs; with longer ram tubes you'll have great mid
range torque, and guess what, he was right, but it won?t breathe as deep at
the top end of the rev range, but that does not worry me one bit as even under
hard road driving the tacho rarely touches 5000RPM. it's always been a
great engine and has a terrific mid range torque due to the wade 205 rally
grind, but the lift is only 0.375", not like the huge cams being made today.

A side note to all of this is that when the first dyno tuning session
was done I had not completed the air box, Clive said to try it
and see how the engine runs with the air box on (After initial tuning)...
the surprise was that it ran like a dog.

So it was back to the rolling road dyno for more tuning and adjustment, this
time with the air box cover fitted, the webers were re-tuned, and what a difference
that made, the engine has now covered over 60,000miles and has run
very well since.
Twinks are great little engines.
Attachments
1-hammerform-269.jpg and
Hammer hammerform used to make weber air box backing plate.
2-hammerform-267.jpg and
Old Air Box Backing Plate Hammer form
3-weber-airbox-264.jpg and
Weber Custom Made Air Box
4-ram-tubes-270.jpg and
Weber Custom Made Metal Spun Ram tubes - Steel.
5-filter-canister-266.jpg and
Triumph 2000 air filter canister- Modified with extra air holes.
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PostPost by: Chancer » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:08 am

Does anyone have even the slightest clue what the last posting means or even the subject?

Editted, my posting was overlapped by Ceejays, its the one before I am referring to.

I am quite used to deciphering what people are saying when speaking in their second language and usually manage to decrypt this persons postings but that one has me beat :?
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PostPost by: jimj » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:39 am

Chancer, the rough translation is: "would anyone else like a drink? oops, none left."
Jim
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:03 am

Deejay, I'm very impressed with your abilities to form metal and mold fiberglass. It's l lost art and requires time and patience. The results were all worth it. Well done!
Glen
05 Elise - Back where I started
65 Elan S2 - 26/4055
72 Europa - 74/2358R
69 Elan S4 - 45/7941
64 Elan S1 - 26/0379
12 Colin 30 - Lotus Racing Kart
07 Exige S - Wicked Road/Track Car
07 Exige S - Fast Road/Track Car
06 Elise - Track pack
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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:22 am

Certified Lotus (Glen), pm sent
Greg Z
45/0243K Sprint
36/5727 pre airflow coupe
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:10 pm

gjz30075 wrote:Certified Lotus (Glen), pm sent


Greg, email sent to you.
Glen
05 Elise - Back where I started
65 Elan S2 - 26/4055
72 Europa - 74/2358R
69 Elan S4 - 45/7941
64 Elan S1 - 26/0379
12 Colin 30 - Lotus Racing Kart
07 Exige S - Wicked Road/Track Car
07 Exige S - Fast Road/Track Car
06 Elise - Track pack
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PostPost by: elangtv2000 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:58 pm

Congratulations on your build, 1owner69Elan! As it happens, Dave is a good friend of mine, and while I was at his shop about an hour ago, we spent some time looking at the motor on the stand, checking out the dyno sheets, and talking about your build.

I had actually seen the motor when it came into the shop, then again when he was working on the new head, and again when the lower end was starting to come together, but before the epoxy coating. That custom dipstick tube and knurled-knob dipstick are perfect, aren't they?

I don't want to hijack your thread, but do want to let you and others know that I will be hosting a new vintage racing podcast with Dave as my co-host, starting I hope in January, 2016. Dave's been in racing and building cars and engines for 40 years, and is known by pretty much everyone involved in vintage racing in the States. I'll start my own thread in a few minutes to provide more details.

Again, congrats on the motor. I think you are right; it will be good motivation for the rest of your work to see that sitting there just waiting for action.

Cheers,

Greg

See: elan-racing-f12/new-vintage-racing-podcast-coming-t35894.html
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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:21 pm

1owner69Elan wrote:There was another question about the uprated propshaft.

This was supplied by Tony Thompson Racing (UK).

Stated to have a stronger tube and higher quality joints. Delivered fully balanced.


You should check the flange yoke of your new prop shaft against the input flange on your differential. I have a TTR prop shaft and it came fitted with the small bolt pattern flange yoke used on early Elans with the 3.9:1 CWP. Your differential will probably require the later flange yoke with larger bolt pattern. For the time being I have swapped the flange yoke supplied by TTR with the one from my original drive shaft.
Russ Newton
Elan +2S (1971)
Elite S2 (1962)
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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:16 pm

Thanks CBUEB1771 re the propshaft mating to the diff. TTR had already pointed out this mismatch issue with my S4 3.55 rear end.

So, I have a universal flange (double drilled) that TTR provided that I will be fitting. Since I was getting into the diff anyway for the Quaife ATB this was a suitable solution.
'69 Elan S4 SE
Street 181 BHP
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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:26 pm

Elangtv2000(Greg):

Thanks for the comments on my engine build. You are fortunate to be able to drop by Dave's on a regular basis.

And thanks for the heads up on your upcoming podcasts with Dave Vegher. I am sure the podcasts will be quite illuminating and entertaining.
'69 Elan S4 SE
Street 181 BHP
Original owner
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Posts: 866
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Location: Napa, California

PostPost by: andyj007 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:06 pm

resurrecting n old thread. sorry, but i cant pm just yet..

did you ever post up the full engine build spec ? im looking to formulate a plan for my own engine and yours would be the perfect one to base it on

thanks

Andy
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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:49 pm

resurrecting n old thread. sorry, but i cant pm just yet..

did you ever post up the full engine build spec ? im looking to formulate a plan for my own engine and yours would be the perfect one to base it on

thanks

Andy


I posted some of this before. Here is the spec: (apologies for any repetition).

New Weber 40’s (151) with 32 mm chokes for street tractability but engine still develops substantial horsepower (181) and torque(143) at streetable rpms (7K redline). The elevated output belies the common wisdom that Weber 45’s and larger chokes are needed to generate this level of power. The new SAS Weber CNC head, when set up properly appears to breathe better than the original castings.

New SAS Weber head. Street (not racing) ports. Engine builder(Dave Vegher) did some additional porting. Redid valve seats from as delivered.

Removal of all combustion chamber sharp edges (detonation hot spots). No pinging on pump gas. 32 degrees total advance.

Valves: Manley Mfg. supplied. Stainless steel with hardchrome finish on the stems. 1.625" on the intake and 1.375" on the exhaust

Cams: From Kent Cams. Lift .440" gross .oo8" lash cold 250 degrees duration measured at .050" lift. 105 lobe center on the intake and 107 lobe center on the exhaust .010" lash on exhaust cam

Formula Ford SCAT crank, square main bearing caps. 7K redline.

Long 4.928" rods, ARP 2000 bolts

Custom forged CP racing pistons, 3.2765" in diameter, Engine Bore 3.2795

Displacement: 1700 cc (1692)

10.25 compression ratio, pump gas (US 91 (R+M)/2 octane)

Custom made 26R deep airbox and mounting plate (smaller stock Weber airbox reduced bhp by 7hp on the dyno)

Extra large bore 4.2.1 race systems exhaust manifold, center pipe, and silencer

Extra large triple cross flow aluminum radiator for extreme power and temperature, swirl pot

Electronic ignition and rev limiter, Pertronix

Electric fuel pump (Facet, low pressure, high flow) with Aeromotive regulator (3 psi)

Custom baffled engine sump to reduce cornering oil pressure losses

Lightened flywheel (Fidanza), saves 7.5 pounds and provides more dynamic spin up of engine. No loss of
smoothness at idle or in street driving.

Magnesium bell housing, saves 12.8 pounds. Sourced from an “underweight” racing 26r GTS (Craig Chima)

High torque, lightweight starter motor from Speedwell (saves 4.1 lbs)

Oil cooler (SETRAB) with thermostatic sandwich bypass

Alloy oil breather catch can. Placed in nose.

AN fittings (black) with “classic” reinforced hoses used throughout for fuel, oil, coolant

High pressure oil pump (necessitates new 0-100 psi dual gauge instead of original 0-60 psi)

Uprated engine mounts

TTR Weber throttle cable and spring return system

Custom fabricated knurled knob dipstick with O-ring

Alloy screw on oil filler cap, non-leaking compared to original spring loaded version

Lightweight alternator

IMG_3538.jpeg and
'69 Elan S4 SE
Street 181 BHP
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:38 am

Can someone ask Dave who has the moulds to make the airbox as its beautifully made and also looks correct.

Cheers

V
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