new fangled starter motors

[Hamish Coutts]

Absolutely on the button Sean .

[Dave_Newcastle]

This is an interesting thread which has caused me to think about solving my sticking starter motor problem.

I believe the sticking I experience to be because of teeth starting to wear on the flywheel - its only happened twice so far. However my car has been a poor starter for years which I think is because the lucas motor hasnt been spinning the engine fast enough.

So I am thinking of buying a new starter motor. I have some questions which I would be grateful if anyone could answer:

1 Is the Brise motor from Mattys a gear reduction type??
2 With the cog coming onto the flywheel teeth from the other side, will it overcome to any degree any tooth wear on the flywheel ring?


Dave (+2s 130)

[Hamish Coutts]

Dave,

To answer your questions.

1 Yes. I've just got mine and it's tiny compared the the Lucas starter.
2. Very probably.

Sounds like you've either got a lazy starter or it's out of alignment with the flywheel somehow. E.g. something between the starter mounting flange & the bellhousing.

Hamish.

[alaric]

I second Hamish's response - the Brise fan club is running strong.

Re the teeth on the flywheel ring, I would guess that it depends on how much damage there is - if a whole tooth is gone then probably not. I presume the engine will always tend to come to a halt on the same bunches of teeth - probably 4 groups of them. You should be able to have a feel once the old starter is out.

The Brise is tiny as the solenoid is completely internal & not bolted onto the side.

Sean.

[Hamish Coutts]

Guys,

Got the damned Lucas starter out, finally. Had to take out the droplink bolt for the antiroll bar. Nothing is easy on a +2.

Brise popped in dead easy and is now bolted in place. Did a quick jury rig for the solenoid wire and the main power cable. It worked a treat.

One comment. The bendix on the Lucas had 10 teeth. The brise has 9 teeth but seems to work fine.

Just have to work out what the white wire does. (it fitted onto a spade terminal on the solenoid.)

[dougweall]

Guys,

Just to add a few notes on this thread, I got my Brise starter a quite a while ago, without going into a lot of detail, I have had cause to wind my engine over quite a lot on the starter lately.

So when this last week I decided to haul the engine out, I had a look at the starter dog, with the bad treatment I have given it, believe me I expected the worst, but I have to say the starter dog shows no ill affects whatsoever.

So on the Brise front I am one happy bunny. As everyone has said a lot of cash but I am seeing it as worth it.

Doug.

[prloz]

The Brise starter motor is tiny because there's no pre-engage mechanism. It's still an inertia type starter like the old Lucas !
Regards,
Peter.

[tdafforn]

Well finally had enough of the Lotus starter and ordered a preengaged one from H&H ignition...
Works a bute...
One word of warning though, the top of the mounting plate fouled part of the engine block so I had to shave a few mm off it. Made the operation a bit of a pain, but the result was worth the pain!!
Tim

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

A question to you guys who have fitted the "Brise" pre-engaged starters to their Elans.
What is the position of the Solenoid when looking from the front of the car,
(e.g. 8 O'clock)?
Reason for asking is that on my Zetec set up, I have used a Ford pre-engaged starter & the Solenoid is at 6 O'clock. It's quite close to the handbrake cable (possible short circuit) & down there where it can get nice & wet.

[rgh0]

I use a Bosch pre-engage starter from a 70's Escort on my Elan and Plus 2. Cheap and effective and the solenoid hangs at the 6 O'clock postion as you describe. No problems with it ever getting wet in 20 years of use.

Clearance to the hand brake cable is just OK on my elan with a standard chassis. On my plus 2 with a Spyder chassis the cable is to close to the starter as the lower end of the handbrake cable on the spyder chassis is mounted a little higher.

I had to build an extension for the Plus 2 Spyder chassis that mounted through the original cable mounting point and moved the lower end of the cable about 40mm lower.

I also have a clamp rejoining the handbrake cable just next to the starter solenoid where a short through the cable melted it when it touched the main power cable teminal !!!!

You live and learn - I will send you photos if you like

regards
Rohan

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Thanks Rohan,
it would appear that we are both using a similar starter motor.
Mine has been on the car for 4 years and used only in the dry without problems. The close proximity of the brake cable to the plus terminal seems to have worked for you & myself (up to now ) so I will forget about Brise alternatives & save the money for my retirement.
Thanks for the help we have all become accustomed to
Cheers
John

[rgh0]

John

If your worried put some tape or shrink sleeve on the brake cable in the region of the starter.

Be careful when removing the starter cable. The short on my plus 2 actually occured when I was removing the normally live starter power cable without disconnecting the battery (stupid I know but we all make mistakes). The spanner hit the brake cable as I turned the nut on the cable terminal. Thus leading to a large flash and melting of the brake cable.

This lead to me to looking at the installation and realising the brake cable on the plus 2 with a spyder chassis was actually rubbing on the solenoid case when the hand brake was on and I lowered the mount position.

Rohan

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Rohan,
many thanks for the advice.
My Elan also has a Spyder tubular chassis & I think it is fairly safe to presume that in the area we are talking about, they must be identical.
The next time I'm under the car I will insulate the cable & take another look at the routing.
I'm going to do a G/box change in the not too distant future.
Cheers
John