Engine Turns Over Slowly

[berni29]

Hello again

Apologies for another post.

I have cleaned the earths, solenoid connections, and starter motor connection on my (recently acquired) plus 2s and the engine still turns over very slowly. Sometimes it stops. The bloke who sold it to me said that it had a new starter motor, and sure enough there is a recipt for one.

I put the battery near the front wheel, and connected a high quality jump leads to the +ve connector on the solenoid and the -ve to the engine mount. No difference.

I have tried two different batteries and had my brothers XJ6 rigged up to it. Funnily enough my last plus 2 would turn over slowly most of the time but other times really fast.

Any suggestions?

Many thanks

Berni

[daves56]

Berni,
This is your third +2? Wow. Then as you know, the starter is grounded through the bellhousing by the two mounting bolts. If these loosen the starter will fail. Also as a thought, some had the 10 tooth gears which sometimes jammed. A slow starter could be a symtom of jamming I suppose. Or perhaps the new starter doesn't align perfectly with the flywheel so it may be binding.
Makes one wonder why the P.O. replaced the starter?
After experiencing these problems I bought a gear-reduction starter and haven't had problems since.
Sorry for so little help but good luck,
Dave S.

[berni29]

Hi Dave

Many thanks, You have been a great help. I like those ideas. If it wasn't so late I would get under the car and try them out! Something for me to look forward to tomorrow. I remember on my first plus 2 I came across this gear problem with the wrong number of teeth on the starter but I had forgotten about it. In fact the car did have the wrong number of teeth on the starter. The guy who fixed the noisy spigot bearing pointed it out and put a new one on (I had complained about the poor starting).

I will pull the bugger out and count them. As it happens I have two other starters in the garage and one on another engine to check against as well.

Thanks again

Berni

[cliveyboy]

From my experience it is the 9 tooth bendix which is the problem.
I replaced my 9 tooth gear for a 10 tooth and had no problems since. (Except when the mounting bolts came loose).
Clive

[worzel]

Hi

Hope this isn't too simplistic an answer but are you sure that the engine earth is ok.

I don't know about the plus 2 but on the 2 seater the earth is from the chassis to one of the engine mounting bolts. I got rid of this after experiencing similar problems to you and made one up using a convenient already tapped hole in the block on the exhaust side. How about excessive voltage drop from the battery?

John

[nebogipfel]

I am assured by a friend who had the same problem that a 10 tooth bendix is the answer .......... assuming the motor itself is not a dud and it has good 12v supply and earth.

Cables should be good quality heavy duty copper so they offer as little resistance as possible

John

[archigator]

I had a similar problem in my Elan... it turned out to be a misalligned starter mounting plate to ring gear set up. I had starter mounting plate holes custom drilled to better allign... and it worked like a charm. (I had blown through three gear reduction starters previous.) I also replaced the ring gear, as it had been pretty chewed up as a result. I also replaced my battery with an Optima battery with about 945 cranking amps... my previous battery had about half of that. What are you battery's cranking amps? That might make a difference.

It's my understanding that the 9-tooth starter is the correct one for the Elan. The ten tooth starter works with the Lotus Cortina, which has a different-toothed ring gear (more teeth.) I had previously heard of the 9 tooth vs. 10 tooth solution, but I spoke to Gustafson Starters, and they told me that the 9-tooth gear is definitely the one for the baby Elan.

Gary
'71 Elan Sprint

[nigelfletcher]

I had a similar problem when I first got my plus 2. As it turned out I hadn't tightened the connections on to the battery - I'd simply pushed them on. This has the same effect as a poor earth.

Nigel

[berni29]

Hi

I spoke to Christopher Neils and they said that flywheels with 107 teeth need a 9 tooth starter, and 100 teeth need a 10 tooth.

I will be counting mine later. What fun.

Berni

[berni29]

Aaaarggghhhhhh! that should have said 110 teeth need a 10 tooth starter. Its confusing enough without that sort of mistake!

When my battery terminals are loose I usually just get a click from the solenoid.

Berni

[type36lotus]

Could it be the contacts inside the starter solenoid are burnt up a bit too much? If you can bypass the solenoid that would be a reasonable test of solenoid health.

[berni29]

Hi

Because I was by myself I was turning the car over by putting a bar across the solenoid. All my starters were 10 teeth ones (I did swap one, but no difference), and I could not face counting the teeth on the flywheel, so in the end I put two big batteries in parallel and the engine started at last.

I will be lifting the body off soon (now that I know the engine is OK), so I will report back on the flywheels teeth numbers after I have done that.

Many thanks for the suggestions. I will get to the bottom of it eventually.

Berni

[persiflage]

This all sounds so familiar.
I bought my 1972 Sprint when it was ten years old and had several owners.
It came with history from the age of 18 months. In its first ten years it had had the starter ring replaced at least four times I think. It always started a dream from cold ( Dellortos - no choke reqd. ) but from hot, after about 20 mins. heat soak it was a bitch. At times barely turning over and a source of great frustration and embarrassment., eventually resulting in worn out ring teeth and occassionally requiring the rocking of the car in gear to find some good ones! ( I suspect the previous owners had got shot of the car because of this problem )
Having replaced the ring gear myself...tooth #???....it was a long time ago, and tried several combinations of starter pinion ( no body would come up with the same combiations when asked ) I was still having the same problem untill one day I lay under the car while a pal tried to start from hot. I found the starter laying at a slight angle with respect to the block, terminal end in. A g/s screwdriver and a little leverage cured the hot starting problem that had plagued the car for so many years
Permanent fix was to lift engine again, new ring,remove bell housing and skim starter mount and also weld an extra lug to drill and tap for a 3 bolt starter, finally wire lock all starter bolts