Lotus Elan

Hi gear starter motor

PostPost by: HCA » Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:34 pm

There are a few things I do as a matter of course when I get a new historic car - hi torque starter motor is one of them!

I did a search and see it is straightforward despite losing knuckle skin en route. But for one thing - AES show two variants, a nie tooth pinion and a ten tooth. I have never seen this before:

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/ ... tegory/227

Now, both pinion diameters are 29mm, therefore the one with the 10 teeth are going to be closer together . This leads me to think that there is a flywheel ring gear change at some stage, but I cannot find any reference to this. It strikes me that at some stage of the twin cam's life, the crank speed was either too fast or too slow and they implemented a change. Does anyone thereore know:

1. Is the starter motor the same across the board of Elans? (Mine is a 1973 Plus 2 130/5)

2. Has this issue been encountered before, and what is considered best - 9 or 10?

Thanks
Hal
HCA
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 299
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France

PostPost by: nmauduit » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:03 pm

there are 2 starter ring one can find

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=30140

ps: everything (or almost) is in the forum...
S4SE 36/8198
User avatar
nmauduit
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1449
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: France

PostPost by: HCA » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:16 pm

Thanks for the quick pointer.

I shall try not to ask questions in the future.
HCA
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 299
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:46 pm

Hal
My take on it , battery a long way from the starter motor , high compression engine , 9 tooth will help the torque.

John ;-)
User avatar
john.p.clegg
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5679
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

PostPost by: nmauduit » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:58 pm

HCA wrote:Thanks for the quick pointer.

I shall try not to ask questions in the future.


I suppose a forum is a place where asking questions is welcome - I do so regularly, yet for non specific issues I usually give a quick look to past threads so as not to multiply subjects and dilute the replies...
S4SE 36/8198
User avatar
nmauduit
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1449
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: France

PostPost by: HCA » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:04 pm

If you read my post, I clearly stated I did a search, but whilst I got the install bits and compatibility, I did not immediately see any reference to 9 or 10 wheel pinions. I therefore thought it fair enough to ask. Little did I know there was someone waiting better than I with the search facility!

My apologies if the question was not worthy a post.
HCA
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 299
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France

PostPost by: Slowtus » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:24 pm

HCA wrote:
My apologies if the question was not worthy a post.


No apology required.
Slowtus
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 190
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Location: Canada

PostPost by: Mazzini » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:38 pm

I don't think there is any need for you to apologise. It would be a sad comment on this forum and it's members if a fellow member felt they couldn't ask a question.

It's quite easy for misunderstandings to happen on forums and I think this is all this was.

nmauduit is absolutely right, there is a wealth of knowledge contained herein, however it may take some time to sift through the years of information, so if you're in a rush, it makes perfect sense to simply ask a question.
User avatar
Mazzini
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1874
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Location: NE UK

PostPost by: RichardHawkins » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:59 pm

HCA,

There are a few sensitive subjects, and you have hit on one, also the search facility is difficult. I made up a piece of plate, like a section of a dummy bell housing so that I could bolt the starter in place and see how the starter and fly wheel meshed whilst the engine was on the bench. People have reported all sorts of starter to ring gear problems, usually with the ring gear being damaged.

We are generally a helpful friendly group.

Richard Hawkins
RichardHawkins
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 756
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Location: Lincolnshire U.K.

PostPost by: Mr.Gale » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:44 pm

I would venture to guess all most every question anyone could ask about the Elan has already been asked so why does this the "ELAN CARE AND TUNING DISCUSSIONS" section exist? It is very intimidating for me and especially new members to ask a question because sure enough, some jerk will say "this has been discussed before, do a search". The search function on this forum is not very user-friendly. I find when I do a search every work in the search will return a post that used that word and you/I end up with a massive list of posts that you need to go through to hopefully find what you are looking for. But maybe I don't know how to make a search.
I would suggest that those who insist on replying, "do a search" at least post a link to a thread that might answer the question.
My two cents.

Mr.G
Mr.Gale
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 147
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Location: Saratoga, CA

PostPost by: HCA » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:31 pm

I am afraid all car forums suffer the same, and as you say, it is the newer users / quiet ones that are put in their place by a few. Just ignore it.

Richard - I was intrigued by your experiment - but you left out the result! Do tell :?: AES would love to know!

I spoke with someone in AES who was quite laid back about it. They get the question often but cannot give an answer as they do not have any notes. Some, he says, spec 10 or 9 as if they know, but many - he expects DIY folk - do not know. He tells everyone that they sell more 9 teeth than they do 10s... AES offered to send me a 10 tooth pinion that I could change myself which is decent I thought.

I bet it is typical British small car manufacturers not being strict on record keeping. John could well be right - someone in Norwich maybe thought the same, tried it, liked it and implemented it when current parts stock ran out and not told the office!

If you think Lotus might be/is bad, then they are nothing on TVR! I had a TVR phase way back and getting the right part was a lottery. BMC/BL on the other hand I find very good in record keeping.
HCA
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 299
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France

PostPost by: The Veg » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:16 am

I think that answering questions that have been discussed before is a good thing for a variety of reasons, including more potential data-points for the search function to chew on, increasing the possibility of useful results. :mrgreen:
1969/70 Elan Plus 2 (not S) 50/2036
"It just wouldn't be a complete day if I didn't forget something!" -Me
User avatar
The Veg
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1492
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Location: Atlanta 'burbs (southeast USA)

PostPost by: Mazzini » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:31 am

Getting back to your question, I'm pretty sure that the Elan was fitted with a 9 tooth starter as standard.
User avatar
Mazzini
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1874
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Location: NE UK

PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:07 am

Yes 9 tooth was standard on Elans. The same starter was used on many cars of the era ( e.g. Mini) and most appeared to use a 10 tooth pinion. The tooth clearances are large between the starter pinon and ring gear and it appears from many reports that a 10 tooth pinion also works on an Elan with the standard ring gear though it is not the original design

regards
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7474
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: HCA » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:30 am

Thanks everyone for the confirmation. It is now on order! Another box ticked, now to the next one.

Hal
HCA
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 299
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: checkrail and 7 guests