Any coaching on distributor / electronic ignition?
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Hello gentlemen. Doing more planning on the build and wanted to get your thoughts on how to approach the distributor and ignition. My SOP has been to get the distributor rebuilt and the run a Pertronix. This has always worked well as I?ve never been stranded (well, due to the ignition anyway).
Are there good new drop-in set ups that work well with our cars I should be aware of as an alternative approach?
Thanks!
Are there good new drop-in set ups that work well with our cars I should be aware of as an alternative approach?
Thanks!
SoCal
1969 Elan DHC
1969 Elan DHC
- tdskip
- Third Gear
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If you are planning to de-smog the engine and change carb needles to UK spec, you should also change the ignition curve to match. The US curve was severely retarded for emissions, robbing some torque and impacting throttle response.
The 123 Ignition is another drop-in option. It has a user settable curve based on 10 movable points, an adjustable rev limiter, anti-theft feature, and can be programmed via a bluetooth connection to your phone. It also has a programmable vacuum advance feature (unlike vacuum retard of the Federal distributor), which in theory should help light throttle behavior and fuel consumption, but I haven't had a chance to play with that yet so can't confirm the impact.
-John
The 123 Ignition is another drop-in option. It has a user settable curve based on 10 movable points, an adjustable rev limiter, anti-theft feature, and can be programmed via a bluetooth connection to your phone. It also has a programmable vacuum advance feature (unlike vacuum retard of the Federal distributor), which in theory should help light throttle behavior and fuel consumption, but I haven't had a chance to play with that yet so can't confirm the impact.
-John
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JohnCh - Second Gear
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+1 on the 123. They work as advertised and are reliable.
Your old distributor likely has worn bushings and gear causing timing scatter.
The Pertronix kits are now made in China and reliability is very poor. Pertronix doesn't care if yours fails and you're stranded.
Regards,
Dan
Your old distributor likely has worn bushings and gear causing timing scatter.
The Pertronix kits are now made in China and reliability is very poor. Pertronix doesn't care if yours fails and you're stranded.
Regards,
Dan
There is no cure for Lotus, only treatment.
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StressCraxx - Coveted Fifth Gear
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I've got to put in a plug for the Pertronix. I have about 16k miles on a Pertronix III with no problems and have had previous models with no problems either.
The Bluetooth adjustable advance on the 123 sounds like an attractive feature, but from my experience, I wouldn't switch for concerns about reliability.
The Bluetooth adjustable advance on the 123 sounds like an attractive feature, but from my experience, I wouldn't switch for concerns about reliability.
- webbslinger
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I notice that all previous contributors suggest retaining the distributor, and are from the USA. In Britain I have come to the opinion that an EDIS (Electronic Distributor-less Ignition System) is the way to go. My thoughts are as follows.
1. All modern gasoline engines that I am aware of use this system.
2. With the distributor removed there is no ignition source beneath a leaky pair of carburettors.
3. Back in the 1960's three friends had their Elans catch fire.
4. As there is no mechanical link between the crankshaft and the spark there is no scatter.
5. The timing is controlled by a programmable ECU.
On the downside, by the time I have finished I expect to have spent at least $1500, and will also need to spend time on a rolling road.
Hope this helps,
Richard Hawkins
1. All modern gasoline engines that I am aware of use this system.
2. With the distributor removed there is no ignition source beneath a leaky pair of carburettors.
3. Back in the 1960's three friends had their Elans catch fire.
4. As there is no mechanical link between the crankshaft and the spark there is no scatter.
5. The timing is controlled by a programmable ECU.
On the downside, by the time I have finished I expect to have spent at least $1500, and will also need to spend time on a rolling road.
Hope this helps,
Richard Hawkins
- RichardHawkins
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Richard, we're on the same page - you missed my earlier comment about a true 3D system being the best option. I had good conversation with Roger King many years ago on this topic. At the time he was one of the leading crossflow builders in the UK and had modified a lot of those engines. People were often torn between a Kent 234 and 244 cam for their Caterhams and Westfields, as the 244 could be a little too compromised for some with borderline drivability and partial throttle low-end torque compared to the milder 234. In his experience, a properly mapped 3D ignition system gave the 244 comparable characteristics to the 234 in those areas and added a significant boost to fuel mileage.
I nearly went this route but decided I didn't want to deal with the installation hassle and determined that for the Elan I would try to keep the under-bonnet appearance close to stock. Besides after investigating the costs associated with a 3D installation, the 123 suddenly looked inexpensive
-John
I nearly went this route but decided I didn't want to deal with the installation hassle and determined that for the Elan I would try to keep the under-bonnet appearance close to stock. Besides after investigating the costs associated with a 3D installation, the 123 suddenly looked inexpensive
-John
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JohnCh - Second Gear
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One strike against the pertronix (and possibly 123) is they need a minimal voltage to work. I've had some issues with my car dropping below the the min voltage when turning over and not starting due to lack of spark.
Easy to jump start but a total pain, especially if your need the car to start "now"... (Don't ask!!!)
Easy to jump start but a total pain, especially if your need the car to start "now"... (Don't ask!!!)
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
- mbell
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I went back and forth for a while, ultimately I had Distributor Doctor build up a new 23D4 distributor of the appropriate curve for my non-federal stromberg engine (to match my original 40953) as well as send me some parts to rebuild mine, which will be in my travel kit as a backup. I like the simplicity of points, the only real trouble in my mind is the change-out, but with a complete distributor to swap that problem is solved.
Henry
69 Elan S4
65 Seven S2
69 Elan S4
65 Seven S2
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