Lotus Elan

Windscreen Wiper Motor is toast

PostPost by: Woody M » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:33 pm

Hello! My 1965 Elan, (26/4128) has a wiper motor that refuses to turn over. I have removed the gears, (to minimize drag) - and....nothing. It is out of the car, which is undergoing restoration.

So, is that motor/ assembly "borrowed" from another type car; say an Mk1 Spitfire? Does anyone know of a specialist who can lay hands upon this thing and make it go? I am certainly not averse to solving the problem with a checkbook. Is there a source for new, or new-ish wiper motor mechanisms?

On another subject: have any of you encountered the wing mirror also pictured? It is remotely adjustable from the driving seat, mechanically...like a Marionette, via the multi-colored wires, shown. It would seem to have been installed at the factory, (judging by the paint under its footprint, how the controls are mounted on the instrument panel, etc.

Thank you and Happy Christmas!

Woody Menear
Attachments
20181122_153319.jpg and
Woody M
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 23
Joined: 23 Sep 2018
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPost by: Emma-Knight » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:19 pm

The Wiper Motor has a thermo cut-out switch in the housing. It is crimped to the grey hammerite painted main steel housing. To my memories, a green fabric covered wire leads to this. Check contact here for cleanness and burn marks, like cleaning a circut breaker.
Also, check cleanness of the return switch in the cap over the wheel housing. Its simple technique, make pictures / drawings how clips and contacts come together.

Anna
1965 S2
Emma-Knight
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 339
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Location: Berlin

PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:27 pm

That?s a standard Lucas wiper motor, still readily available here in the UK and on eBay. Is it single speed or two speed. Either way used on many British cars including MG Triumph Etc so you should be able to find a replacement. They are fairly simple and are not beyond a home rebuild, clean new brushes etc. Just check that the wiper wheel boxes are not siezed or partially siezed causing the motor to be overloaded and burn out.
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine!
Bigbaldybloke
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 665
Joined: 16 May 2017
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPost by: Woody M » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:47 pm

Thanks for those encouraging words! Not only did I, (I am reasonably crafty) - but my friend, Bill did as you suggested. We first disconnected the drive from the motor and then the nylon gear wheel from the transmission. '
The brushes were cleaned, the commutator was lightly polished on my lathe and then, the segments cleaned out, to insure they weren't "talking" to one another. The windings have no open segments.

Bill is a retired IBM Electrical Engineer, an avid American Flyer train modeller, owns and works on a Piper Cherokee light airplane and a 1955 Chevy BelAir....with all that said, HE couldn't figure out the problem. In the end we tried applying voltage to the three wires and the "parking" circuit, in non-standard ways...regardless, it simply hums and draws 15 Amps of current. We have it so free that one can spin the bottom of the coil shaft, by hand and yet, it won't run. Weird...

Perhaps I am missing something obvious. Thanks for any help!

Happy Christmas!

Woody Menear
Woody M
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 23
Joined: 23 Sep 2018
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:08 pm

The connections are not straightforward as the parking facility can hold the motor stationary, there is an article somewhere explaining it, that?s why there are after market boxes for intermittent wipe and wash/wipe functions as they have to get round the parking function. Maybe someone else on here has the info?
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine!
Bigbaldybloke
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 665
Joined: 16 May 2017
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPost by: Woody M » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:39 pm

1965-lotus-elan-s2-at-recovery.jpg and
Not only are my new (to me) - Lotus Friends helpful...but you are collective geniuses! I went back to basics and sure enough, I was able to make the motor run by simply running B+ to the black wire and simultaneously grounding the Park Circuit and the Low Speed Circuit. Now that I know the motor is okay, it's time to go to school on what I misunderstood about the wiring/switching, since I can't yet make the high speed circuit run. Thanks to all for weighing in. I'll happily take any additional hints, insights, scolding, chiding, etc.!

Not really an excuse, but my poor car hasn't run in two-decades and was in sad shape. I removed EVERYTHING, including the corroded Side Frames and I am starting from scratch. Even the bottoms of both floors, below the Side Frames have been pushed through the fiberglass, by freezing and thawing...it's a project!

Little did I suspect that the nuances of Lucas wiring would send me on a wild goose chase, when testing the wiper motor. Now....I've made a bit more work for myself! I can say that the bush at the center of the nylon gear is very worn. There is a thin, brass insert that is half-gone, (to reduce friction?) I'll be looking for some mechanical parts, after I educate myself on the mysterious Parking Circuit.
Thanks, again!

Woody Menear

Cheers,
Woody Menear
Woody M
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 23
Joined: 23 Sep 2018
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:24 pm

Glad to be of assistance Woody, looks like you are going you need quite a bit more as you progress. You?d be surprised at what the people on here know and how helpful they are. I?m rebuilding my early Plus 2 from scratch and have been missing bits and needing dimensions or details that are not in the manual and within hours usually someone has come up with the info or a picture showing how things should be.
Make sure you take plenty of photos at each stage as you take it apart and again as it goes back together, people on here are always interested on others projects, the problems they find and how they get around them.
Good luck with your project, do you have a timescale in mind?

Simon

Ps picture of my starting point included, a completely bare shell just about to go to the paint shop. I guess I?m a year or so in front of you!
Attachments
e7778934-afc0-45bb-8d7a-dedae8dbd81d.jpeg
e7778934-afc0-45bb-8d7a-dedae8dbd81d.jpeg (99.44 KiB) Viewed 361 times
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine!
Bigbaldybloke
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 665
Joined: 16 May 2017
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPost by: alanr » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:40 pm

BBB...Thread drift I know but just curious to know if you stripped the paint from your car by hand?...or did you soda blast or similar?

Alan.
Alan
'71 +2 S130/4
alanr
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 344
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
Location: Derby. UK

PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:54 pm

Hi Alan, it had already been resprayed once and had had some light panel damage repaired, so I stripped it using a coarse file with a sharpened end as a scraper and the paint came off pretty easily in finger nail size flakes in most places. The finish then needed light sanding and any damaged areas repairing. Boring and messy but just did an hour or so a day and soon got through it. The worst bits were the areas that had been damaged and previously repaired, the paint was stuck much harder here.
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine!
Bigbaldybloke
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 665
Joined: 16 May 2017
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPost by: alanr » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:33 pm

Thanks for the info... :D :D
At some point I will have to make some decisions on what to do about bodywork on mine but still early days in my ownership so lots of mechanical/electrical stuff to sort at the moment!
Alan
'71 +2 S130/4
alanr
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 344
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
Location: Derby. UK

PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:53 pm

Woody, only difference between low speed and high speed is which of the three brushes are used, the pair 180 degrees apart are for low speed and for high speed you use the pair that are 120 degrees apart, so one brush is common to both and the wiper switch just selects which other brush is in use. The parking logic is the same for both speeds, once the wiper is on, the connection to the parking circuit doesn?t change whichever speed you select.
Hope that makes sense. (The idea is that this brush arrangement fools the motor into operating as the equivalent of either a two pole or a three pole motor and hence the different speeds)

Simon
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine!
Bigbaldybloke
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 665
Joined: 16 May 2017
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPost by: Woody M » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:12 pm

bucker-jungmann-at-sky-classics.jpg and
Simon,
Well...I think you've given me a possible answer; My DR3A, only HAS two brushes, 180-degrees apart! Since this is my first Elan, I assumed that the wipers would be at least two speed.
I like the Plus 2! I haven't got a time frame, really. I was in the airplane restoration business, for 30+ years and have had enough of deadlines! I must say that my "real" occupation allows days at a time at the workshop, so I am hopeful that it will drive, next summer...time will tell. I'll send a couple of pictures of some of the Bucker Jungmann German biplanes that my little company restored. These were kind of our specialty. I am also simultaneously repairing an airplane I finished in the late 1990's, flew for about 5-years and ultimately sold. It was heavily damaged, about 7-years ago. I bought it back from the pilot who wrecked it and have been repairing (relatively easy and cheap) - and then updating the systems and avionics to 21st. Century specs.....neither cheap, nor easy LOL!

Hey...just found a couple of photos of the other kit car I built, an ERA 289 Cobra. Finished this late in 2011.

Happy Christmas to you and good fortune on your Lotus project.

Regards,
Woody Menear
Attachments
20170828_103708.jpg and
20170828_103723.jpg and
sky-classics-bucker.jpg and
woody-mear-sx300-03-30-99-b.jpg and
Woody M
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 23
Joined: 23 Sep 2018
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPost by: Emma-Knight » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:06 pm

normaly, S1 / S2 have a rehostat ground switch, which is off - on - rehostat fully adjustable speed.
Two tracer wires (red Green / yellow Green ) run from Wiper trippel Connection to switch via loom, one black wire from switch to ground behind dash main loom.
One fused green line from left loom end behind glovebox (with right hand drive car ) to wiper motor, one black earth line from there to wiper housing ( running from there to left door courtesie light switch )
Thats what I remember, You should better check in the manual.
:wink: S4 wiring may be different.
Anna
Last edited by Emma-Knight on Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1965 S2
Emma-Knight
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 339
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Location: Berlin

PostPost by: types26/36 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:27 pm

Yes, as Anna says normally S1/2's and 3's (my S3 did) have a "variable speed wiper switch" as per picture.
(maybe US version's had a two speed?)
Attachments
s2-wiper-switch.jpg and
Brian
64 S2 Roadster
72 Sprint FHC
User avatar
types26/36
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3655
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Location: U.K.

PostPost by: Woody M » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:19 am

20181202_174252.jpg and
20181202_184439.jpg and
20181202_184150.jpg and
Woody, Simon is correct for the permanent magnet wiper motors only. You have one with a wound field with two brushes. In yours, the high-low speed is accomplished with multple windings in the field coil. Therefore, it?s possible to have part of the field shorted or open and only end up with one speed.

The above input comes from my friend, Bill Johnson...I am only marginal, (obviously) - with car electrical systems, despite a decent working knowledge of aircraft electrics. Life is about learning, so...here I go!
Thanks for your continued interest and help. Attached find some shots of my somewhat worse for wear wiper motor assembly.
20181202_184150.jpg and
On a brighter note: The Hammerlite paint on the cam covers is acceptable!

Sincerely,
Woody Menear
Woody M
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 23
Joined: 23 Sep 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests