Lotus Elan

Ignition Advance

PostPost by: Mazzini » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:31 pm

vincereynard wrote:Dan,

It does state " All mechanical advance with optimized advance curve etc etc"

Ask the vendor what the actual curve should be and if they will guarantee its accuracy. Compare it with the (correct) Lotus curve.

They can't all be junk surely? The ignition module itself looks virtually the same but 5 X the price!
Screenshot from 2018-01-17 20-08-24.png


I am considering a 123ignition, then I can experiment with my own curve. Especially when it has been on the dyno.
http://www.southerncarbs.co.uk/page_1796358.html

Anyone got experience of it?


Just fitted one today, but I ran out of time so didn't get it running. Two minor irritations so far, the o ring oil seal was too large and just wouldn't fit into the block and the new distributor clamp has to be tightened from both ends, the old original clamp has a square nut on one side that locks against the clamp body so the clamp can be tightened from one side only. The old clamp screw is too long to be used on the new clamp. If I have time to get it running tomorrow I'll post feedback.
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:47 pm

vincereynard wrote:I am considering a 123ignition, then I can experiment with my own curve. Especially when it has been on the dyno.
http://www.southerncarbs.co.uk/page_1796358.html

Anyone got experience of it?


that is what I have fitted on my street car, I am very pleased with it so far.
I have already posted on this, there are some computer tools with it that I've found quite useful (poor man's dyno using road acceleration, control setup to help with tuning, esp. at the rolling road...)

One also has 2 custom curves to chose from live (by use of a switch) - I have put in a different rev limits on them, and I use the switch when I lend my car to a not so trusted driver at track days...

I have modified mine to use a TPS for fuel economy during road trips (in lieu of the vacuum input), though I have not really experimented that yet.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:16 pm

On my Sprint i fitted a "simonbloc powerspark" hall effect very cheap about 6 years ago no problem.
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:31 pm

alan.barker wrote:On my Sprint i fitted a "simonbloc powerspark" hall effect very cheap about 6 years ago no problem.
Alan



+1 here, and an identical Accuspark module. The problem is neither address the advance curve inaccuracy. It seems it is simply a gamble. You may be lucky - then again ..........

123ignition or maybe Aldon - I'm not sure which yet.

Anyone want a cheap electronic module. 1 very few miles, t'other zero.
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PostPost by: Mazzini » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:04 pm

I managed half an hour on the 123ignition installation today. The factory supplied O ring oil seal fitted with more lubricating oil and more force. I found a SS bolt that enabled me to fit the square lock nut on the distributor clamp. Unfortunately I was unable to progress any further because my plug leads were too short, I've ordered a new set and hopefully they'll be here before the weekend.

The distributor cap is broader than that of a 23D4 and care has to be taken with it's orientation or the take offs for the plug leads could foul number 2 inlet manifold.

I did power up the distributor and there was no issue with the Bluetooth link to my iPhone.
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PostPost by: Davidb » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:09 pm

I recently helped a friend fit a 123 distributor to his Jag XK150. We "failed to notice" that there were alternative positions on the distributor body for the 'o' ring and of course, we had it in the wrong one which cause a massive oil leak... I was impressed with the ability to adjust the distributor via my friends cell phone as we test drove the car-very cool!
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:56 pm

Davidb wrote:I recently helped a friend fit a 123 distributor to his Jag XK150. We "failed to notice" that there were alternative positions on the distributor body for the 'o' ring and of course, we had it in the wrong one which cause a massive oil leak... I was impressed with the ability to adjust the distributor via my friends cell phone as we test drove the car-very cool!


So it would be possible to do test runs on a suitable road. Tweak the advance through a phone and then test again? Very handy.

This is an interesting article with reference to ignition advance / modern fuels. The scenario being that as modern fuels, allegedly, burn slower more advance is needed.

I say allegedly burn slower as I've read opinions indicating both slower and faster.

Anyway it is using an old MGTC for the reason that the acceleration runs can be timed with an alarm clock.

http://ttypes.org/ttt2/modern-fuel-on-trial
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PostPost by: Davidb » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:31 pm

Yes, you download an app to your phone and it shows a 'dashboard' with rev counter, ignition setting, temperature and other things. You can adjust the timing as the car is moving--just like drivers could in the 1920s!
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PostPost by: Mazzini » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:39 pm

I was happily powering along at 90mph, when the car in front of me decided to pull over, I dropped a gear and put my foot down there was a bang and a pop and the engine died, I costed to a halt, I opened the bonnet and found my rotor arm had vanished... the distributor cap was undamaged and sat next to the engine, but not attached to the distributor, the rotor arm was gone, I have couple of Elans with 123ignition distributors. The first has weak distributor cap springs (you have to bend them, but they are mild not spring steel), it was this unit that suffered the failure, the second unit is better, but still not great.

I pointed the issue out with the Dutch agent, but their response has been the usual 'nobody else has complained' BS

Much as I love my 123ignition units, this is rubbish service and I am not going to buy anymore, I'm going to go old school - Distributor Doctor.

PS the Dutch agent was still happy to take my money for two spare rotor arms.
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:14 am

Mazzini wrote:I was happily powering along at 90mph, when the car in front of me decided to pull over, I dropped a gear and put my foot down there was a bang and a pop and the engine died, I costed to a halt, I opened the bonnet and found my rotor arm had vanished... the distributor cap was undamaged and sat next to the engine, but not attached to the distributor, the rotor arm was gone, I have couple of Elans with 123ignition distributors. The first has weak distributor cap springs (you have to bend them, but they are mild not spring steel), it was this unit that suffered the failure, the second unit is better, but still not great.

I pointed the issue out with the Dutch agent, but their response has been the usual 'nobody else has complained' BS


I did have a mild issue with rotor cap fitting, on a LTC it is not easy to see under the carbs so I go by feel, and the cap has a rather tight fit with the dizzy on my setup: once (rushed manoeuvre or other careless reassembly) it was slitghtly off, resulting in the arm slightly touching one of the carbon contacts (so being further away from the opposite one, gaps being all messed up to some extent and the engine running just a bit rough - no harm done, though I did not figure that out right away).

The locating tab only engages 1 or 2mm by feel, so the springs must be pulling just right (I think mine are not just mild steel, it is an older version with USB cable for control). I suppose the issue is not so bothering for the crossflow or where you have ample access to the cap...
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PostPost by: Mazzini » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:38 am

The spring clips on my earlier distributor are soft and easily lose their tension, the later distributor is better, but if 123Ignition used spring steel then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Seems a shame that this is an issue on such a well made piece of equipment.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:46 am

"shame that this is an issue on such a well made piece of equipment."
Except for the minor detail with the Clips. :shock:
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PostPost by: Foxie » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:31 pm

Davidb wrote:Yes, you download an app to your phone and it shows a 'dashboard' with rev counter, ignition setting, temperature and other things. You can adjust the timing as the car is moving--just like drivers could in the 1920s!


What is this app ?

How are the settings read ?

Where is it available, and where can I learn more ?

:)
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:01 pm

Foxie wrote:
Davidb wrote:Yes, you download an app to your phone and it shows a 'dashboard' with rev counter, ignition setting, temperature and other things. You can adjust the timing as the car is moving--just like drivers could in the 1920s!


What is this app ?

How are the settings read ?

Where is it available, and where can I learn more ?

:)


The app/software would be available from the 123 ignition website https://123ignition.com/support/ (no affiliation)

though regarding the changing of advance while driving, this would be a feature of the bluetooth version, on mine (which is USB cable controlled) one has to turn the power off and on to enter new data (can't enter the data while the engine is running)
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PostPost by: Mazzini » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:40 pm

alan.barker wrote:"shame that this is an issue on such a well made piece of equipment."
Except for the minor detail with the Clips. :shock:
Alan


At least the buggers could send me the later stronger clips.
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