Lotus Elan

Electronic ignition initial timing?

PostPost by: vincereynard » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:40 pm

Having refitted the engine / box, I'm just at the point of adding the other bits when it accured to me that
I could have a problem setting the initial ignition timing as the thing has an sparkly new accuspark distributor.

No does one find the actual firing point?

Sorry it is in the **** obvious department!

Vince
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PostPost by: Craven » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:49 pm

Hi,
As I understand things, accurate static timing is not possible with this type of electronic ignition.
Method :- Point rotor arm directly at No 1 cap pickup at TDC. This is close enough to start engine then use timing light and adjust.
Ron.
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:28 pm

I know absolutely nothing about them.....but.....set the crank markings to 10 btdc ( or whatever you prefer ) on No1 compression , point the rotor arm to just before No1 pickup,replace the dissy cap and with the ignition on , and a timing light or even the spark plug connected , rotate the dissy till you see ( or hear ) the spark..

Works on lumenition.

John :wink:
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PostPost by: Craven » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:41 pm

Hi,
Well you?re right there John you know absolutely nothing about them, the magnet pick up starts the coil charging time it does NOT initiate the spark.
Ron. :wink:
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PostPost by: Chancer » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:49 pm

Well he knows how to set static timing on a Lumenition Optronic ignition set up or a CB points set up, thats a lot more than nothing and more than 99.9% of todays motorists would know.

Hall effect triggering needs the engine to be cranking to generate a spark.
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PostPost by: Chancer » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:52 pm

Craven wrote:Hi,
the magnet pick up starts the coil charging time it does NOT initiate the spark.
Ron. :wink:


You might want to rethink that statement after reflecting on charge time, dwell angle and specifically engine RPM.
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PostPost by: Craven » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:57 pm

Hi,
Subject of post, ? Accuspark Distributor.? With respect gentlemen I suggest YOU do some research before commenting.
Ron. :wink:
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:26 pm

Now,now boys,lets not argue,Sorry Ron I know I posted after you but didn't see your post,the fitting instructions are here...

http://www.accuspark.co.uk/fitting_guide.html

maybe they shouldn't call it a trigger ring??

10. Push the supplied trigger ring down onto the centre cam , this should be a snug fit , if loose some kits are supplied with a packing piece place this on first then push the trigger on .If nothing supplied wrap a small piece of tape around centre cam and the push trigger wheel on .

but anyway my way should get it started..

5.Starting the car

Attempt to start car, in most cases the car will start .In some cases the distributor will have to be turned a few degrees in each direction until car starts and best idle can be achieved. Then the engine can be timed with a strobe.
PLEASE NOTE: It is not possible to accurately set timing statically, a strobe lamp must be used.

John :wink:
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:33 pm

"Hall effect triggering needs the engine to be cranking to generate a spark."

I still have my doubts about this , surely any change of magnetic field passing the hall-effect would trigger the spark ??

ie, rotating the dissy...

John :wink:

Edit

Come on Vince,you can settle this,see if you can hear/see a spark when rotating the dissy...?
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PostPost by: mbell » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:14 pm

Whether you can or can't static time them depends on the circuit used in the module, some modules you can and some you can't.

My basic Pertronix II unit (sold as different brand in the UK) can be static timed the same as points. You can even do it with the engine removed from the car by using a 12v power supply. Connect the ignition module to the 12v connection to +12v supply out, the power supply ground to the dizzy body and test lamp between power supply 12V and the modules ground connection (one that goes to the coil.).

Align engine to desired static timing, insert dizzy with Rotor facing the lead for 1. Power up the module and hopefully the test light will be on, then rotate until it goes off, tighten dizzy and you are done. I was able to get it within a couple of degrees using this method and then got the strobe light out once the engine was back in the car.
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PostPost by: Davidb » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:52 pm

I just installed a Pertronix distibuter in my car-it cost very little more than the 'kit'.

I set the engine to tdc #1 and carefully noted the rotor position, then I installed the new distributer in exactly the same position, turned the key and away she went-I checked the timing with light and it was spot-on! Runs better too...
'65 S2 4844
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:13 am

Hall effect magnet sensors will trigger at zero speed just like points or lumenition light sensors will. The problem is with the electronics and whether they are designed stop operating below a certain speed to stop the electronics potentially overheating when the engine is stopped but the ignition left on.

Most of the modern "in distributor" units shut the electronics down at very low speed as they cannot handle the current going to the coil continuously and thus you cannot statically time.

cheers
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PostPost by: Galwaylotus » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:30 pm

Thanks very much for that clarification, Rohan. It just adds to our understanding of current systems.
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:14 pm

Thanks to all for your responses.

john.p.clegg wrote:Now,now boys,lets not argue,Sorry Ron I know I posted after you but didn't see your post,the fitting instructions are here...

http://www.accuspark.co.uk/fitting_guide.html

PLEASE NOTE: It is not possible to accurately set timing statically, a strobe lamp must be used.
John :wink:


Thanks John that what I have been looking for.

rgh0 wrote: whether they are designed stop operating below a certain speed to stop the electronics potentially overheating when theignition is left on.

Most of the modern "in distributor" units shut the electronics down at very low speed as they cannot handle the current going to the coil continuously and thus you cannot statically time.

cheers
Rohan


Exactly what I was concerned about.

I took an image of the dizzy at TDC before I pulled it out, so I'll stick it back as close as possible and strobe it when it's running.
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PostPost by: miked » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:00 pm

I am late to the party but I do the approx position bit and then with the plugs removed and the strobe attached time at cranking speed for initial set up. Sorry if I missed something but did not see this mentioned when i had a quick read through. They must all spark at cranking speed otherwise they would not work. Also with plugs out you get a rate of knots on the spinning.
I dropped upon this by chance but have aired it before.
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