Hi Stu, thanks for the quick reply - let me answer your questions below in the body of your text...
Are the relays the Lucas can style or the Bosch cube style? No difference electrically but different terminal number / letters.
The relays are the Hella Relays out of Germany
Is the door ash tray equipped with a light in your car? Is it working? One of the wiring diagrams shows the window motors use the same ground as the ash tray light. I would expect this ground is attached at the dash brackets where the interior light switches are located. Are the interior lights working from the door switches? In your case I don't immediately suspect the ground as I understand you have lost the use of both windows; both bracket grounds do meet at the main dash ground (right side of lower dash bracket) but this would effect a bunch of other stuff in the car.
No lights in my ashtrays - smoking blind in my car
The interior lights are working from the dash switch, along with the instrument lights, and also the "puddle" lights and red "warning" lights on the doors. Correction - there are lights in my ashtrays- I just took them out and see there is a little red light in the back, but I have to say in the nearly 15 years I have owned it, I have never seen those actually on so no idea if they have power or if the bulb is dead. But that is one thing I could try to see if there is a ground problem.
Do your windows normally work with key off? The diagrams appears to show two variants of electrical supply to the window switches. One variant (the later variant I believe) uses Green power supply, which is typically 'Hot in Run & Start, Fused' The diagram shows it supplied from the centre fuse box, second fuse from the left, common with brake lights and fog / spot lights. The other variant (the original variant I believe) uses White / Black power supply directly from the control box through the left fuse in the front fuse box, common with nothing else. There are other variants shown for Federal cars but they appear to be single fuse box so doubt relevant. Can you see the wire colours that supply the main lift motor power to the relays and the wire colours running from the switches to the relays?
Yes, my windows did work with the key off - well let's say they went down but not up with the key off - strange I know but this is how they worked. Here are a couple of pictures of the relays and the fuse box - wire colors are difficult in the engine bay to make out as so many have faded. Wires to relays interior:
https://goo.gl/photos/XeK9PC4d3FSqDBEb7 Engine bay:
https://goo.gl/photos/MKPFGY8rVSgUqWqQ7The relays have been added rather than stock. It is possible the power to the switch and subsequently connected to the relay coil ('trigger') is from one fuse and the power connected directly to the relay and subsequently to the lift motor from another fuse. Can you easily get to the relays to check for voltage?
Yes, as you can see from the picture above, I can easily get to the relays, and this was also one thing I checked with my multi-meter. Yes, they are getting power.
Yes, the typical wiring setup uses one relay for up and one for down. From your description the relays are clicking for both up and down on both sides of the car? I therefore do not suspect the power supply to the switches, coil trigger wires to the relay(s), or the relay coil ground(s).
Yes, I agree, seems they are indeed working with voltage and clicking on both sides.
What I have found with my rewired window lifts is the lift motor fuse size needs to be at least 15 amps to prevent them blowing at motor stall in the full up or full down position, so thinking you are correct to suspect these fuses first. If both windows were stalled simultaneously the draw could be higher. When actually running, the lift motors seem to draw closer to 7 to 10 amps.
Where are your added relays located in the car, as may provide a clue where the lift motor power was sourced?
They are inside the car under the dashboard bolted into the bulkhead.
Diagrams I see show the hazards and indicators supplied from a separate fuse than the window lifts. It is possible the motor supply was moved to this fuse when the relays were installed?
Anything is possible - it was this way when I bought the car so no idea what the previous owners did - or attempted to do. Certainly seems that it is a power issue of getting the power down to the door motors. But where it is getting interrupted, I am at a loss to understand. I will have a mechanic friend of mine try to come and help me hopefully this week - but if you have any advice on what to check - please let me know.
HTH
Stu
Post by davidwinegar ? 12 Jul 2016 01:25 pm
I took my 1970 +2S to the shops yesterday and had the windows down on a nice summer day here in Helsinki (a rarity!). Rolled the windows up when in the parking garage and now they are stuck up and won't move down. Been dreading an electrical problem since I bought the car
and now I have one.
My car has relays for the windows under the dash on both sides - 2 for each window - looks like one for going up and another for going down. Can feel when I push the switch that something internally is clicking so I guess they are somehow working.
My question is, how to troubleshoot this? Is it more likely a fuse issue? I have been trying to figure which fuse is connected to the windows in my +2S. This is the diagram from the manual
https://goo.gl/photos/KeQVqRze6Qj3TcEZ6 but seems some years ago I made a note at the bottom that the windows were connected to the indicator fuse. The indicators are working fine. As are the Hazards (which the manual says is where the windows should be). So now what should I do?
What would be the troubleshooting advice - unfortunately without the ability to open the windows I am pretty much unable to drive as it just gets too hot these days.