Lotus Elan

Broken Starter flange

PostPost by: Mick6186 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:46 pm

Hi,
I have a +2 130/5 that I am renovating. I have a problem in that I have had two starter motor mounting flanges break across the bolt holes. The engine is a 1700 711M block with L14 cams, bigger valves and gas flowed head.
It appears that when starting the engine it gives a bit of a cough/backfire before the float chambers are full, but this breaks the flange. Has anyone had a similar problem, and if so is there a fix. I am thinking the starter must flex with the torque which breaks the aluminium flange. I am thinking of welding a bracket onto the starter casing and finding some way to bolt this to the block to stop any movement.
Any advice would be appreciated,
Thanks,
Mick.
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:12 am

Check/adjust your ignition timing....?

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PostPost by: Chancer » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:20 am

If the timing is correct for max power and torque but only has the starting problem then fit a latching relay with a push button (preferably hidden) to switch in the ignition once the engine is cranking healthily.

You will get faster cranking, better starting and an extra security device.

Your engine is trying to kick back, I had a highly tuned X/flow that would do it so violently that it would run backwards for a few r?volutions a few times snapping the head off a cam follower, the pi?ces of d?bris then wrecking the dry sump pump.
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:51 am

"If the timing is correct for max power and torque but only has the starting problem then "

.... get inside your dissy and enlarge the advance range so your cranking timing is less aggressive.

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PostPost by: vxah » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:53 pm

I thought this was a bit of a known issue, especially if there is a bit of a miss match between ring gear and starter pinion? Being a non standard set up are you 100% it's all correct?
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PostPost by: Mick6186 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:35 pm

I'm fairly sure the ring gear/starter pinion are matched as the engine turns over fine with no spark connected and had been starting no problem. This happened after I fitted an original fuel pump and it seemed that the fuel hadn't filled the carbs before it backfired. I'm keen on the too much advance theory so will retard it slightly when my new starter flange arrives.
Thanks for the comments,
Mick
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PostPost by: Robbie693 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:10 pm

Mick6186 wrote:I'm keen on the too much advance theory so will retard it slightly when my new starter flange arrives...


Can you buy starter motor flanges? Could you tell me where?

Cheers

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PostPost by: ort » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:21 pm

jcr supplies have the flanges and most parts to rebuild the starter motors.

inertia starters use a 110 tooth ring gear there are 2 types of ring depending on the age, only the bore is different the tooth form is the same. these ring gear were used on all kent based engines. There are 3 available pinions to suit the ring gear 9,10 and 11 tooth. the standard pinion for a ford escort 1.1/1.3/1.6 is 10 tooth but cold climate spec has a 9 tooth pinon and is a straight swap.

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PostPost by: tesprit » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:03 pm

Robbie693 wrote:
Mick6186 wrote:I'm keen on the too much advance theory so will retard it slightly when my new starter flange arrives...


Can you buy starter motor flanges? Could you tell me where?

Cheers

Robbie


If you are talking about the mounting flange for the original Lucas M35J starter, I purchased one from this seller on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUCAS-M35J-INER ... Sw9N1VtgVu

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PostPost by: gus » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:39 pm

jcr supplies have the flanges and most parts to rebuild the starter motors.

inertia starters use a 110 tooth ring gear there are 2 types of ring depending on the age,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

there is only one ring gear for twin cams, 110 tooth

ten tooth starters found there way into the aftermarket, not original, but seem to work fine

Fine tooth ring gears were not on Lotus twin cams, maybe Caterham

All the flanges should be the same regardless of pinion, although some starters in the aftermarket may not have interchangeable parts
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PostPost by: ort » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:57 pm

in 1970 the ring gear mounting diameter was changed from 10.048" to 10.167" there for there are 2 types of ring gear. I am not disputing 9 tooth is original fitment but pointing out 10 tooth is used with 110 ring gear without problems.
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PostPost by: gus » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:29 am

I do not believe there was a change in 1970. There was a change to the flywheel[4 bolt to six bolt] before that

10 tooth pinions work but are AFAIK not an original fitment, and the presence or or absence of a 10 tooth pinion says nothing about the ring gear.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:16 am

are you sure the sandwich plate between bellhousing and engine is not damaged. You need to be sure the machined shoulder on the starter motor flange is locating fully, if not when the starter motor holding screws are tightened the flange will be destorted/bent
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PostPost by: Mick6186 » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:29 am

Alan,
Now you've got me thinking. It's a 5 speed with a 711M block and I think the sandwich plate has been cut in places to fit and if I remember correctly the piece for the starter is missing so I think the starter flange only locates on the gearbox, therefore leaving one side with no support. This would not be good !! I will investigate and may have to fabricate a support ring from some sheet steel.
Thanks,
Mick
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:35 am

" starter flange only locates on the gearbox, therefore leaving one side with no support."

surely you mean the bell-housing?

Even so I still can't picture it...

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