Lotus Elan

Window motors

PostPost by: Lordflashart » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:50 am

Gentlemen,

Both my electric windows work, but are really slow and need a bit of help closing completely.

I've spayed wd40 on the mechanisms and applied silicon grease to the guides to no avail.

Is there anything else I can do to make them work properly?

Paul
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PostPost by: elanfan1 » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:20 am

Fit a thicker earth cable?
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PostPost by: el torro » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:21 am

try putting a direct earth from battery to motor,also check supply voltage,it could be bad connection on switch,does it work quicker in up or down position / are both sides the same speed ,I have in the past made up separate leads to other battery/ booster pack to eliminate other potential problems
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PostPost by: DavidLB » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:06 pm

I bought two new ones from the states, up and down now like greased lightning. Sue Miller has the info for new ones
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PostPost by: gus » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:37 pm

The grounds are undersized
the wire from the switch and from the fusebox to the switch is undersized

the grease in the slides hardens and needs to be cleaned and replaced, WD doesn't really do it.

When the wires are replaced with 14 AWG wire the windows will work acceptably with the car off and normally with the car running above idle
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PostPost by: Concrete-crusher » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:37 pm

The motors are very old and very simple. It's easy to just strip them down , clean up the armature with fine wet and dry , grease the gears and re assemble. I did this and mine were both much better. I think the motor is also used on several fords as window wipers such as the escort and cortinas so you may find spares there.

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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:14 pm

In previous related topics at least one member of this forum has had good success in mounting a relay near the motor in each door. The dash-mounted switch need only energize the relay coil. Of course everything else must be in good working order and increasing the wire gauge for the ground and +12V to the relay contact and then to the motor has a significant benefit.
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PostPost by: gus » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:10 pm

I believe +2 are GM window motors

I really think relays are a waste, as the switches are not a particular weakness, but wire is
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PostPost by: Lordflashart » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:01 am

Cheers chaps,

I'll remove the motors and clean them and take a look at the wiring also.
The car only ran for a few minutes before dropping a valve, so evening has just been using a battery, so that may be part of the problem.


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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:22 am

Lordflashart wrote:so evening has just been using a battery, so that may be part of the problem.


Yes, that is definitely part of the problem, mine have always been very slow when driven off the battery alone.
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PostPost by: Elan45 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:47 pm

I clean the commutators on my motots w/ scotch-Bright and then clean the air gaps between the commutator segments w/ a corner of a business card. The carbon brushes track carbon residue into the air gaps which shorts the segments together and then the motor becomes reluctant to rotate.

My original motors in my SS had broken bolts and the bolts were aluminum. I was concerned at 1st about using steel bolts, but they have worked fine and no worry about breakage. The bolt size is imperial 10-32.

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PostPost by: stugilmour » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:28 pm

Paul, mine were also terrible when I got my car. The larger gauge wire and relays helped, but they still performed slowly. I found the relays well worth the effort as our fifty year old switches are not the best and are pretty much unobtainable NOS. I figured the lower trigger current through the old switches was best for them. If upgrading the wire through the doors, would recommend modern thin wall cable; the tube carrying the wire is a pretty tight fit. That all said, 20/20 hindsight I would focus on the motors first.

If you decide taking the motor apart is too time consuming, the good news is rebuilt lift motors are available from your local Autozone with a nice credit for your old core. :D

I posted the part number call-up I used here. Note the discussion on which side you are replacing in the Lotus, as it is opposite to the original GM application. I used a Chevelle call-up, but the same motors are very common across the NA GM line-up of the period. The new reconditioned motors are almost too fast, even on battery only! :D Just noticed I posted the part info five years ago; they are still working fine. :)

lotus-electrical-f38/plus-window-motor-and-mechanism-needed-can-anyone-suggest-t21184.html

Been a while since I had stock Plus 2 wiring, but I found I needed 15 amp fuses for the motors as the stall current top and bottom of travel would sometimes blow the fuse.

Note the Plus 2 window lifts are completely different from the Elan system, so sometimes it gets a bit confusing looking at old posts.

HTH

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PostPost by: Sea Ranch » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:25 pm

Stu, I remember well your post about the window motors. But are you saying you did wiring/relay upgrades first, didn't get great improvements, then put in the rebuilt motors with no other changes and saw a huge improvement?

That would clearly indicate the effect of just the wiring and then just the motors. Nice. If so, the motors are, as you say, the place to focus.

Thanks once again, Stu!

Prayin' for rain,

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PostPost by: stugilmour » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:11 pm

Sea Ranch wrote: ...But are you saying you did wiring/relay upgrades first, didn't get great improvements, then put in the rebuilt motors with no other changes and saw a huge improvement?..


Yes, that is pretty much it Randy.

There was some voltage loss through the switches and stock wire for sure, and I consider it a worthwhile upgrade. Modern cars use a relay for window lifts, and as I say they draw 12 or so amps at stall. In the Plus 2 it is an easy upgrade with two relays for each window.

The big improvement was reconditioned motors. I tried cleaning up the grease, etc. first, but for about $120 a side I highly recommend the reconditioned units with core credit. One thing for sure, you will prefer to install the motor once! :) Note you have to re-use your lift gear as it doesn't come with the reconditioned unit.

HTH

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