Lotus Elan

Starters

PostPost by: twincamman » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:51 pm

Wellll. .....I had a machine shop replace the ring gear and went back to a Lucas starter ....all is joy and starting ......ed :D :D
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PostPost by: cal44 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:29 am

We had a '63 356 in. Figured it needed a new battery as the starter was turning over very slow. Wasn't the battery. Pulled the stock starter, had it rebuilt........bam. Starts like a new car.

Did the same with a garage find Sunbeam Tiger. The results were the same.
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PostPost by: twincamman » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:10 am

Yep it's all great except I have 900 dollars worth of denso starters on the shelf :lol: ed
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:05 am

Ed, I'm curious why you went back to Lucas, having the more modern type on the shelf? I suppose that Lucas have literally worked billions of times but when mine finally was worn out I went for a modern one from Kelvedon without giving it too much thought.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:40 am

I replaced the new Brise that had been fitted to my Escort Twincam with a re-conditioned Lucas unit. The Brise turned the engine over quickly but made a noise like a chainsaw through metal. The Lucas unit works fine and sounds right.

I think that a lot of after-market starters are fitted because there's an underlying problem, either with the original starter, the ring gear, the earth to the engine or just poor starting due to other engine problems. There's not a lot wrong with the old Lucas units, and some of them have lasted over 40 years!

Different matter with a high compression competition motor though I guess

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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:47 am

Elanintheforest wrote:I
Different matter with a high compression competition motor though I guess

Mark


Due to the longer duration cams, at cranking speed a high compression race motor is similar to a normal road motor in terms of compression pressure and starter load

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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:05 pm

I, too, went back to a Lucas starter. It has never failed me in 36 years (quick, where's that wood I need to knock).
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PostPost by: twincamman » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:19 pm

I got tired of pulling the motor to replace damaged fly wheel gear teeth and once I found a good old style one that pulls in the correct direction life is much easier :lol: there were some problems with short mounting starter bolts to adapter plate allowing the Nissan unit to eat up gears ..lots of problems .....Ed
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PostPost by: oldchieft » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:11 pm

rgh0 wrote:
Due to the longer duration cams, at cranking speed a high compression race motor is similar to a normal road motor in terms of compression pressure and starter load

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The problems start when you use a long stroke crank.

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PostPost by: twincamman » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:37 am

I set the timing at 14 degrees and it can wait to start ?ed
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:37 am

twincamman wrote:I got tired of pulling the motor to replace damaged fly wheel gear teeth and once I found a good old style one that pulls in the correct direction life is much easier :lol: there were some problems with short mounting starter bolts to adapter plate allowing the Nissan unit to eat up gears ..lots of problems .....Ed


Hi Ed
A lot of your problems related to softening of the ring gear due heat when fitting I recall. I agree the degree of flex and lack of engagement distance with some of the modern replacement starters can be an issue but lots of people use them successfully. I stick with the 3 bolt pre- engage starters that were fitted in the early 70's Escorts but fitted with the correct 9 tooth pinion for the Elan. They mate up direct with no issues just using the 2 bolts available on the Elan bell housing and do a lot less damage to the ring gear than the Bendix drive on the original starters

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PostPost by: twincamman » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:10 am

Hi Rohan ......I use a denso starter on my 7 without any trauma so far but it has the cast bell housing from lotus . The bell housing on the ?lan is a magnesium super light thing and may be off in the drilling of some mounting holes . There is always a slight grinding sound from all the starters I used including the 3bolt super race starter I bought . The Lucas also pulls instead of plunging against the installation direction of the fly wheel . Make s me feel some confidence in a very stubborn car ,so this summer I may get some seat time instead of constantly working in the garage on it after 8 years When a few of the outstanding problems left over from a complete car rebuild from bare chassis up are solved I may address the starter problems but for now if it works more than twice I'm so pleased ......ed
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:37 am

The alloy bell housings always make more noise as the "ring" more like a bell than the cast iron ones do. My Plus 2 with the Lotus 5 speed alloy bell housing is the same - sounds like its grinding ... but the gears and engagement are perfect and they have lasted 30 plus years with no significant wear so I know its OK !

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PostPost by: twincamman » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:25 am

oh thanks for that bit of info ?good on ya Cobber ?.ed
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PostPost by: twincamman » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:08 am

I first put a denso starter on when the lucas unit got tired . That unit had short bolts holding the starter to the adaptor instead of the very long 10 mm bolts and that allowed movement finally the starter was left hanging by the wire and destroyed the ring gear teeth so first motor out ? and new ring gear which I over heated it failed ...second motor out new ring gear ?new hi torque starter had the timing too far advanced and balked on start up . With no throw out the super starter cleanly bent the gear teeth and simply made horrid grinding noises that attracted attention but didnt turn the motor over ?. third motor out new gear?? the throw out bearing waited until I tried it and disassembled its self fourth motor out ?.starter made horrid grinding noise ?.,fifth motor out ?.although the gear appeared ok I had a new gear replaced and went to a lucas starter ?..no grind and it starts ,,,,,,now later on in the summer this year I may replace the lucas unit but now Im sort of gun shy about the whole unit BUT I can pull and replace a n Elan motor and beat the time by a bunch ?BTW all my friends with Miatas stop by for a beer and a chuckle as they put miles on their cars on sunny days and have fun and tell tall tales about the Lotus nut who likes to pull the motor ON HIS CAR ?.that was my last summer of 2014 .,., :lol: :lol: :lol: ed
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