Lotus Elan

Brise Starter Motor

PostPost by: mark030358 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:31 pm

Anybody answer this... Why would a Brise gear reduction starter hit the flywheel between the flywheel teeth instead of engaging? Flywheel has 110 teeth, while the Brise unit has 10 teeth. If car is rocked in gear slightly and flywheel moved the starter engages.

Anybody had this issue with a Brise unit?

cheers
Mark
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PostPost by: EPA » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:22 pm

Mark
I seem to recall that pre engaged starters turn slightly when the solenoid is initially activated (ie when you turn the starter) before it reaches the point at which the motor is switched on fully. This is to avoid a clash if the teeth on the starter ring have stopped in line with the teeth on the starter motor gear.
It may be that yours isn't turning during the first phase for some reason

Ed
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PostPost by: robertverhey » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:30 pm

Is it something to do with the chamfer on the flywheel teeth? The standard starter pulls the pinion back onto the flywheel, whereas the preengaged starter pushes the teeth forward onto it. If there was no chamfer on the flywheel teeth on that side, there would be a higher chance of it hitting a tooth rather than meshing.
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PostPost by: mark030358 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:16 pm

Rob/Ed,
The starter does spin going in and IIRC the flywheel was chamfered on both sides. What I was wondering was if the 10 tooth starter gear may be the culprit?

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PostPost by: gus » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:45 pm

110 tooth flywheel wants a 9 tooth pinion,the fact that some Lucas starter have 10 is an aberration.

with a modern starter the starter should engage easily, so if the starter is not engaging the flywheel it could be defective[bad starter clutch] or misaligned[either through errors in the starter or the bellhousing]

Assuming the 10 tooth pinion is the same exact size as those Lucas used, it should engage, even though it is not 'right'

the 'right' pinion is a 9 tooth 29 mm but since Lucas did use the 10 tooth[whatever diameter] and it did 'work' it seems unlikely that this is the source of the problem
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PostPost by: mark030358 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:27 am

Hi Gus,
By much would the starter have to be misaligned to cause this? I'm pretty sure the starter is OK as, as I said, if I rock the car it goes in every time. This seems a plausible answer although I do 't know how, as all was spot on. Strange indeed.

One more thing, can anyone give me the dimension from the front of the engine sandwich plate to the back of the flywheel teeth when looking into the engine from the front? I just want to check the throw length of the starter pinion gear.

Thanks
Mark
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PostPost by: gus » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:57 am

The distance from the mounting surface to the near edge for the ring gear should be about 1.2 inches
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:47 am

Mark, my Escort Twincam was fitted with a Brise when I bought the car. It sounded like a chainsaw going through metal in use, and would jam up every so often. The cause was diagnosed, as Robert says above, as the ring gear having the chamfer only on the side required for the standard inertia starter, Apparently, you need the chamfer on the other side for these sort of starters, and most ring gears have the chamfer on both sides, so you can use either starter.

It was a simple fix. A new standard starter was fitted, and the car starts quietly and easily now ever time. The Brise was consigned to the bin, luckily not having done any damage.
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