Lotus Elan

Aaaaagh I hate Delco window winders

PostPost by: Si Geen » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:58 am

It's Sunday morning And I'm letting off steam about the frustration of replacing winder motors.

I've removed the motor and got it going again in both directions (a small battle won, but not the war).

I've discovered that the window winder switch power only works to power upward, so I'm happy that I'm getting getting there in respect of isolating and curing the fault. However putting the @@&?););)!!' Delco motor back is a royal pain in the,,,,,,,

I need another pair of hands to hold the arm in place against the spring tension whilst attaching the bolts.

I've read all the great forum comments on here and tried the lot.

It's either motor attached to arm with the wires attached, but can't put the arm back to the frame.

Or

Put the frame in without the motor attached, which then means I can't attach it to the arm when that's in place. Why are these apertures so small and painful!!!

If anyone knows the pain I'm going through and has a ninja trick that works then please let me know. If not then please accept this as me Just letting off steam.

Thanks in advance
Simon
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PostPost by: gus » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:18 am

ISTR that sliding the wheel onto the the track one could rotate the motor into position. part of the difficulty is the hardened grease in the track making it difficult to move.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:33 am

Just spent the weekend stripping the motors, locks and door window frames out of the doors in my plus 2 in preparation for painting. I am not looking forward to the reassembly process. At least the second door only took me 3 hours versus 5 for the first. It was easier once I filled in all the steps missing in the manual!!!! :roll:

cheers
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PostPost by: richardcox_lotus » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:45 am

Must be something in the water. I spent yesterday looking at the painfully slow window winder on my Sprint. Different arrangement to a +2 so I can't help with any tips but good to hear everyone else knuckles wrists and fingers are suffering.
Richard
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:50 am

I have not done it yet but I think you need to have the arm and motor assembled in the door with the arm set to be about horizontal. You then fit the end of the arm into the channel in the window frame from the rear and bolt the motor in place. The window needs to be down about 1/3 for the arm to fit in

That's the theory...... don't know yet how it will work in practice.

I at least have a few months until the painting and other work is finished before I need reassemble it. SO I am sure you will solve it by then :lol:

cheers
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PostPost by: elanman999 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:32 pm

It's a long time since I fitted a window motor but IIRC I put the motor in the door without the brackets. Get the roller in the slot and then assemble the motor to the brackets.
I should also point out that in the manual, section B, page 53 it shows you how to enlarge the hole in the door to make the job easier.
Have fun
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PostPost by: gus » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:43 pm

I think it is actually 'straightforward' but as the OP mentioned, the apeture is small, cutting up you rarms and the motor is heavy and then the window falls

as with much on the car there is an obscenity level that must be reached before it will obey

As a side note, 20 years ago when I rewired my car I gave each window its own fuse, and ran 14 ga wire to and from the switches and to the grounds. one can now push both window switches up and close the windows with the car off, something that required manually assisting or starting the car[to get higher voltage] previously. They are slower than they used to be, but it is the grease hardening in the track. The right thing to do is disassemble the door and clean the 40 year old grease out and replace with new
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PostPost by: lotusS2guy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:46 pm

Surly, it did not take five hours to put in a window mechanism when the cars were first built. Is there anyone who worked at the factory that can supply the magic sauce? :idea:
Herb
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PostPost by: DavidLB » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:11 pm

Rohan's method is the one I used on mine once you get the hang of it works ok, in the end i bought new motors, windows now go up and down like modern ones.
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PostPost by: Si Geen » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:47 pm

Thanks for the responses.

It's good to know that I'm not alone.

I finally managed to re-assemble the arm to the door frame, then fit the motor and show the car who's the boss despite plenty of cuts and grazes.

In the hope that it may help others, here are a few points which I picked up, some of which were subtly mentioned in other blogs but I found to be vital.

If anyone needs further info to clarify any points then please feel free to contact me through private message and I'll talk them through what I know.

As for removing the Delco window motor, my advice is, do your upmost not to remove the mounting plate and window mechanism (arm) from the door frame. However, if like me you decide that you really must create space to get the motor out then don't dispare as it can be achieved, but I could only manage it by the following steps:

Having removed the mounting plate which is attached to the window mechanism from the door. The spring kicks in and rotates the plate quite firmly making re-assembly very difficult.

For re-assembly, I didn't have the window motor attached to the square mounting plate. This I found out the hard way, as the gear teeth of the Delco motor stop the attached mounting plate from being rotated all the way round to align with the bolts which hold the plate to the door under the tension of the spring. (The semi circular arrangement of teeth won't rotate through the Delco motor). This was a tough lesson to learn and took me a while to work out.

I didn't really understand previous posts about the window at 2/3 and the arm horizontal (a point also picked up by Rohan). In fact the window lift motor mechanism can be forced towards the back end of the door. Mine wouldn't budge which caused a lot of confusion until freed and was the reason I removed the plate for access. Once pushed to the rear, the plate can be rotated to line up the bottom right bolt (drivers side door). This wasn't easy and just required brute force and a lot of swearing and loss of skin.

When aligning the plate I didn't bother with washers and spacers to the mounting plate. I just held it in place against the spring and got the bolts in. Then went back to each bolt one by one and added the washers and spacers later. Hence I advise to keep the back two bolts of the mounting plate attached to the door frame at all time, so that the spring doesn't rotate the mounting plate and cause all that pain that I went through. In short, just remove the front two bolts and the bar labeled 37 on the exploded view of the parts manual.

To get the motor in to place, having attached the arm to the door frame by the rear two bolts. I propped the Delco against the hinged front side of the door, with it orientated as if fitted. I then manoeuvred the motor into place by hand (fingertip). This is the only way I could get the gear teeth to align with the teeth of the semi circular window lift arm (window taped shut). I could only achieve this with the front bar mounting plate removed.

A few further points.
The exploded view in the plus 2 manual doesn't quite show that one of the three bolts which hold the motor to the mounting plate is hidden by the vertical bar. Nor does it describe how hard the spring is to manipulate or the amount of blood lost in trying.

I also got a better power reading on my multimeter with the bolt cleaned up and the black wire re positioned to one of the motor mounting bolts. I replaced it to the one on the right of that seen in my previous attached picture, taken before I started.

Good luck

Simon
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PostPost by: DavidLB » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:34 pm

there is a hole through the mounting arm and the gear so that a bolt can be pushed through both holding the spring in tension.its then easy to remount the motor.
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PostPost by: JJDraper » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:16 am

I seem to recall that it is a lot easier to deal with all the winder gubbins with the door removed from the car and flat on a surface such as a table or floor. Gravity works for you instead of against. The fully assembled door is heavy, but I can cope with that.

Obviously you need to protect the paint with a soft surface such as carpet & cushions. Just do it when SWMBO is out.

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PostPost by: jono » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:51 am

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