Lotus Elan

Aldon Igniiter Static timing?

PostPost by: Europatc » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:44 am

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PostPost by: Esprit2 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:02 pm

Aldon isn't big in the USA. I recognize the name from internet discussions, but have no hands-on experience with it. But I notice that Aldon also uses the same Ignitor, Ignitor II and FlameThrower trade names pioneered by Pertronix. Is Aldon simply rebranding the Pertronix products, or do they have a unique product with similar naming?

On their website Aldon states:
"Aldon Automotive specialise in SUPPLYING OUR OWN MAKE performance distributors, electronic ignition units and Octane Booster." However, the product photos look strikingly similar to Pertronix.

So what's the relationship? By talking about Aldon and Pertronix in this thread, are we really discussing two separate systems, or just using two spoons to stir the same pot?

*~*~*
Rohan,
The Hall Effect may be a principle of Physics that relates to magnetism, but not all Hall Effect Sensors include magnets, and not all forms of magnetic sensors involve Hall Effect Sensors. The "Hall Effect" name has been applied to one type of solid state sensor.

Magnetic sensing can involve everything from mechanical reed switches to inductive pick-ups, fluxgate magnetometers, or magnetoresistance... or solid state Hall Effect Sensors. And while they may all play with magnetics, they aren't all called "Hall Effect Sensors".

Solid state Hall Effect Sensors can detect a static magnet in close proximity... you are correct, that's true.

However, they can also detect a moving ferrous (ie, magnetic material, but not magnetized) object that passes by very closely, such as the cogs of an ABS Wheel Speed Sensor's cogged wheel, or of a crank triggered ignition's cogged wheel... commonly called a reluctor. And that can include an electronic ignition system's rotating reluctor ring within the distributor.

Iron is magnetic, even if it's not magnetized. Said differently, a simple iron rod could be considered a magnet with an extremely low level of magnetic flux density... nil. Even if it's not "magnetic" in the sense that you can't pick up a nail with it, a solid state Hall Effect Sensor can still detect it's presence if it is moving past the sensor in close proximity at high enough speed. That is the "Hall Effect" trigger as used in many speed sensors and electronic ignition systems.

From a naming stand point (think Marketing rather than Engineering or Physics), a magnetic triggered ignition system has real magnets in it, while a Hall Effect triggered ignition system uses a non-magnetic reluctor (wheel with iron lobes/ cogs) and a solid state Hall Effect sensor that can detect a lobe as it moves past at sufficient speed and close proximity.

The original Pertronix Ignitor has small, real magnets imbedded in a rotor, and a stationary sensor. I don't know what sort of sensor Pertronix used (it could even have been Hall Effect), but it could sense the presence of a stationary 'real' magnet in the rotor. The useful point being that it was "On" most of the time (charging the coil), and would switch "Off" when a magnet aligned with the sensor, even if the magnet was stationary. And that clean On-Off switching regardless of speed could be used to static time the original Ignitor with a continuity light or multi-meter.

The Ignitor II and III systems changed to a reluctor wheel with one lobe per engine cylinder. The reluctor is made of magnetic material (could be iron), but is not magnetized. A Hall Effect Sensor pick-up is used, and can detect the passage of a nearby moving reluctor lobe, but cannot detect a stationary lobe. For that reason, the Ignitor II and III systems cannot be static timed, and must be moving at near engine cranking speed.

One downside to some Hall Effect triggered ignition systems is that a near dead battery may not be able to crank the engine over fast enough to trigger the Hall Effect sensor, while an ordinary set of breaker points would have fired a spark.

Regards,
Tim Engel
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PostPost by: l10tus » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:28 pm

image.jpg and
Sorted!

I borrowed a Gunson Strobe light, the type that has positive and negative connectors to the battery also a sensor that wraps round plug lead number 1.

I removed the Webbers, distributor cap, plugs, throttle cable, and supply tomy electric fuel pump.

Marked up the bottom pulley with Tippex, so I could see the timing mark.

I removed and checked the Aldon igniter circular sensor containing the magnets and marked their positions with blobs of Tippex. This fits over the 4 no. cam lobes on the centre of the distributor.

I chose the one that was in the middle of the fixed Aldon trigger / sensor,

I unloosened the distributor clamp to enable the distributor to swivel - ( not too loose, just enough to be able to move it later)

I then replaced the rotor arm, attempting to line this up with the distributor cap position for Plug lead number 1, noting that I would have to establish the limits of the rather restricted movement arch that was available for the distributor plug cap and leads to freely rotate side to side, (before fouling the induction inlets and metal obtrusions in that limited space area) - then checking and adjusting the position of the rotor arm by lifting the distributor from its clamp and resetting to give the correct position -
So:-

Tippex dot in the centre of the fixed sensor, rotor arm facing no 1 contact on the Dizzy cap / plug lead one, then:-

I engaged Third gear to enable rocking the car to establish approx 8 -10 degrees BTDC. On Cylinder number on its compression stroke.

I connected up the strobe, switched on the ignition and twisted the distributor body backwards and forwards, until a 'crack' of light was emitted by the Zenon tube in the Strobe, marking the point when the Igniter fired the spark.

I then Checked its position several times, then nipped up the distributor clamp, to fix the position for its static timing position.

Reconnected everything back in position, and.......................................

IT RUNS!

















quote="Esprit2"]Aldon isn't big in the USA. I recognize the name from internet discussions, but have no hands-on experience with it. But I notice that Aldon also uses the same Ignitor, Ignitor II and FlameThrower trade names pioneered by Pertronix. Is Aldon simply rebranding the Pertronix products, or do they have a unique product with similar naming?

On their website Aldon states:
"Aldon Automotive specialise in SUPPLYING OUR OWN MAKE performance distributors, electronic ignition units and Octane Booster." However, the product photos look strikingly similar to Pertronix.

So what's the relationship? By talking about Aldon and Pertronix in this thread, are we really discussing two separate systems, or just using two spoons to stir the same pot?

*~*~*
Rohan,
The Hall Effect may be a principle of Physics that relates to magnetism, but not all Hall Effect Sensors include magnets, and not all forms of magnetic sensors involve Hall Effect Sensors. The "Hall Effect" name has been applied to one type of solid state sensor.

Magnetic sensing can involve everything from mechanical reed switches to inductive pick-ups, fluxgate magnetometers, or magnetoresistance... or solid state Hall Effect Sensors. And while they may all play with magnetics, they aren't all called "Hall Effect Sensors".

Solid state Hall Effect Sensors can detect a static magnet in close proximity... you are correct, that's true.

However, they can also detect a moving ferrous (ie, magnetic material, but not magnetized) object that passes by very closely, such as the cogs of an ABS Wheel Speed Sensor's cogged wheel, or of a crank triggered ignition's cogged wheel... commonly called a reluctor. And that can include an electronic ignition system's rotating reluctor ring within the distributor.

Iron is magnetic, even if it's not magnetized. Said differently, a simple iro
image.jpg and
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