S4 Elan (Federal) Wiring Issues

[hubrick]

Progress! With Phil identifying the rogue wires/connector, I have removed them. Quite odd that two of the wires were hooked up to the DB10 box, the 2 and 6 terminals which the +2 Federal diagram Phil sent me shows are the connections to the indicator warning light and the front turn indicators. Not sure why it was connected there?

With that done, I hooked up the wire from the brake switch to the DB10 box and got the brake lights working. This morning I'm going to try to get the turn signals working.

This morning i see Steve's post about rewiring everything myself. Appreciate you thinking I can do something like that, but I sure don't want to. I don't have the right tools and I'm terrible at soldering. However, I do have several places where I have power (using the test light) on what is supposed to be a ground wire, and for some reason when I touch two of the back of the speedo ground wires together I get a buzz in the DB10 box, so I know there are significant issues with bad grounds here and there. So I'm not sure about a full self rewire behind the dash at this point, but I do believe I need to pull out the dash to go any further.

So, Steve, I have all the 6 large screws and the two small steering column bracket screws out, but the dash only pulls back a couple of inches. I guess it's time to disconnect the heater and choke pull wires and see if that's what's keeping the dash from moving any more. The WSM says to remove the vents in the dash top cover, but I don't see any reason to do that. Can you give me a quick step by step for what has worked for you?

Cheers,
Rick

[steve lyle]

Rick,

Okay, with the usual caveats (do this at your own risk), here's the best of my recollection:

To start with, I remove the seats. You'll be doing some of the on your back, I used a rolled up towel to pad the cross-car ridges at the front of the seat mounts that tended to hit me in the back. It's probably possible to do this with the seats in, but they're easy to get in/out.

1) Remove the console
2) Remove the shift lever
3) Remove the 6 facia screws
4) Remove the under-dash trim panels
5) Remove the heater and choke cables at the engine
6) Remove the temp sender at the engine
7) Remove the glovebox "box" - I didn't the first time, so you don't have to, but it makes it easier. If your anti-theft switch is still there, you'll have wires on the left side to deal with - see step 12.
Eight Remove the bonnet release holding bracket at the dash
9) Steering column: I removed mine entirely. I've seen others just remove the column bracket at the dash. If you go that route, you may want to remove the steering wheel for access purposes.
10) Disconnect the oil pressure sender at the gauge. If necessary, you can wait until you've got the dash partly out - I don't recall if any access issues at this stage
11) Disconnect the vacuum lines to the headlight vacuum switch.
12) Start disconnecting wires. Use masking tape or something to label ends. Take pics and make notes. In my case I actually had to cut some wires to deal with PO decisions - don't freak out if that's the case. Disconnecting bullets can be a b***h, if there's a trick to that, I don't know it. Just pull hard enough to get the bullet out, not so hard to pull the wire out of the bullet.
13) Start pulling the dash back, angling the top back at first. This will reveal more wires to disconnect.
14) As you go, straighten out the temp sender tube to allow it to pass through the firewall.
15) Repeat 12 and 13 until the dash is out.

You're right, no need to mess with the vents. The manual probably has that for +2s.

I probably missed something, hopefully someone will review and jump in with any corrections.

BTW - the tools are relatively cheap, and isn't one of the purposes of owning a classic car the collection of tools? And soldering is a skill easily learned, lots of Youtube videos on that.

Regards,
Steve

[crannyr]

when you get to rewiring the DB10 these photos might be of help.

[lotusfan]

Disconnecting bullets can be a b***h, if there's a trick to that, I don't know it. Just pull hard enough to get the bullet out, not so hard to pull the wire out of the bullet.

Hi Steve and Rick

My take on disconnecting bullets is that if they are difficult to remove the socket is probably corroded and needs replacing anyway. So, take a sharp blade and run it down the length of the black covering and then peel it off. You can then get a small screwdriver blade into the gap between the 2 bullets and lever them apart. If you are intending to reuse the bulleted wire you can clean up the existing bullet with a wire brush or emery and then push into a fresh connector using silicone grease as previously advised. Don't forget to use the special bullet insertion tool from RD Enterprises.

It's not worth reusing old connectors, always buy new ones.

[hubrick]

More progress!!

Thanks for the continued help by everybody - particularly this time Steve for going through and giving me a step-by-step dash removal procedure, but lots of great wisdom of experience from everybody. Good advice about separating stuck bullet connectors, good help with DB10 picture and diagram, thanks to everyone.

I'm having lots of trouble with the web site though. I wrote a long reply to this subject last night, then tried to attach a picture. When I clicked on the "add the file" button, it asked me to log in again, and when I did, my long reply was missing. That's twice it's happened to me. Anybody have a solution to that problem?

But on to the Elan - the big progress was I discovered that the small rectangular box under the tach attached to the back of the dash is actually the original indicator flasher. The wire powering it from the hazard switch was dead, so I got to the back of the switch through the ash tray hole in the dash and found that the brown wire powering it was melted/burned. So I replaced it. That gave me power to the indicator flasher with the switch off, and power to the turn signal wires and the hazard flasher wires with the switch on. Next issue is that lead me to the discovery that the PO had converted the hazard flasher into duty as the indicator flasher. So today, I'm going to try to turn the hazard flasher back into it's original purpose, and connect the indicator flasher to the DB10 box. With any luck I'll get the indicators working again today. I'm going to try to add a picture again, this time I'm going to copy the note before I try. This black connector looks like it goes on the top of the indicator flasher, and it's got two of the wires for it too. Just want to verify.

The other startling result was I reconnected the ground wire at the bottom right large screw connection for the dash, and almost miraculously the heater fan came on and the window switches started working. Driver's window goes up and down veeeerrrrrrryyyyyy slowly, passenger window just clicks and moves a fraction, but at least I have power to them (Steve's heavier duty wire suggestion likely in my future). No windshield wipers yet, but I'm more confident I'll get there now than when I started a couple weeks ago.

Also, I found a post by 45/0005K talking about these same kind of wiring issues. My car is 45/0030K, so almost a twin sister to that car. I've PMed him to see how his turned out. As I'm making progress, I'm modifying a blown up version of my WSM wiring diagram so I'll have it available for future use. When I get it finished, I'll post it here too so it might hopefully help someone else.

Cheers,
Rick
70 Elan S4 (Federal) 45/0030K

[hubrick]

Hello All,
Well, I'm really on a roll now. Wouldn't have happened with so much help/guidance from you in this group. Thank you!

With one new Napa 550 3 pin flasher to replace the hazard  flasher, I now have working brake lights, turn indicators, and hazard flashers.  Had to fix a couple of ground connections, but it's great that it all works, especially the DB10 relay box. That would have been a nightmare to try to remove and replace.

While I was under/behind the dash, I also got the windshield wipers, windows, and heater fan working (all grounding issues), and replaced what I hope is the intermittent ignition wire to the coil.  There were two splices behind the dash, and I just replaced them with one, didn't replace the wire in the harness.  The wire to the anti-theft switch had been disconnected by PO, one less thing to fix.  Great progress!

Now I'm back to the headlights.  I talked to Dick Britton, who had a post a couple years ago about his S4 45/0005K.  With my car 45/0030K, I figured we were as close to the same as we can get.  He said that his car didn't ever have the headlight flasher system, and mine doesn't either.  We concluded that they were that way from the factory.  Another thing I don't have to fix.  Anybody else have an early "Federal" S4 that doesn't have the headlight flasher system? I'm wondering how many cars are like that.

A strange headlight issue - I have power to the dip switch and on to either the main or dip relays with the headlight rocker switch in the OFF position. Is that just another backfeed bad ground issue? Still have power with the swtich ON, and that activates the red wire to the running lights and panel switches. Can't get the headlights to come on though. I can jump across the C terminals to make the main and dip beams come on, but they won't come on with power to one W terminal and grounding the other one. Is this a clear cut bad relay case?

Once the lights are working electrically, I'll have to figure out how to make them go up and down. Phil's electrically actuated vacuum solenoid is a very tempting solution!

Cheers,
Rick
Elan S4 (Federal) 45/0030K

[hubrick]

Hello all,

Well, as a wrap up, after 4 weeks I put everything back together today and went for a ride again. Rewired back to original turn signals/hazard flashers/brake light system (peculiar to the S4 Federal car) and they're working. Gave up on the vacuum switch in the Fail Safe headlight system, and rewired the headlights to turn on with the rocker switch. I've ordered an electrically actuated solenoid to control vacuum to the cannister to open and close the pods. Phil Harrison sent me pictures of his set up. Dick Britton is mailing me some red and purple wires from his old wiring harness to hook up the solenoid and the new horns I've installed.

Windows and wipers work pretty slowly, think those motors are going to have to come out and get overhauled. After I put some miles on her first though.

Thanks for all the help. I'll be out on the road with my little yellow Elan now, loving every minute of it.

Cheers,
Rick
70 S4 Federal (45/0030K)