Best Distributor

[StressCraxx]

A question for the OP: do you want a fit-and-forget oignition system, or do you want a mechanical thing whirring away with clacks and clunks, requiring periodic diving under the carburettors to replace two bits of mtal that are all but welded together, twiddle the thing around so that it runs, keep spare bits of sprung metal - and associated tools - in the glove box for that rainy night break-down, not to mention the bevvy of parts and coils back home?

The original service schedule to "clean and adjust points as necessary" was every 6,000 miles. How many miles do you do in your Elan each year? A lot of electronic ignition systems are overhyped. True if you can utilize a fully mapped ignition system and accurately calibrate it on a Dyno there is no doubt some engine performance advantage or if you want a dual mapped ignition or utilize knock sensing but unless you are running a bleeding edge engine there's not a lot of advantage.

An accurately timed spark is an accurately timed spark regardless of whether it is achieved by mechanical or electronic means. Doesn't matter if the spark is 30,000V or 1,000,000V. If the fuel/air mixture goes bang it goes bang!

You are right - much of what I say is tongue in cheek, but difficult to always express with words and emojis

I just love the way topics regarding distributers involve lots of replacing things, carrying spare this and that for a roadside repair and having shelves of sparky things... Do not mind me, I have just had my fill of fiddly things and have embraced the computer age with wide open arms..

Well said, 2Cams. That said, our dizzys are mechanical systems subject to wear. When the timing scatter is more than you can tolerate, a refurbish is in order. Here in the Colonies we seem to get all the crap produced in third world countries. I went through three condensers in one weekend trying to get the engine to run. Finally got desperate and put in a used one I found in the bottom of my tool chest. Car started right up. I checked the box from one of the new condensers (Made in India).

[SENC]

Taken as intended HCA, and don't disagree your solution is superior. I just don't have the skillset to dx and fix a faulty electronic ignition or anything computer-based on a car - and the simplicity of mechanical devices I can figure out and work on is why I like these older cars and their older technology. Keep It Simple, Sir!

[2cams70]

When the timing scatter is more than you can tolerate, a refurbish is in order

To be perfectly honest I've never come across a Lucas distributor with significant wear in the bronze spindle bush or the cam the spindle bearing. That's in a Lotus Twin Cam and many other cars using Lucas distributors that I've removed from scrapyards over the years.

The main problems I've come across are.
1. Wear on the support posts at either end of the advance springs (Mainly affects the later distributors with pressed metal posts)
2. Advance spring posts pulling inward over time (Again mainly affects distributors with pressed metal posts)
3. On distributors having vacuum advance facility only - breaker plate wear which causes the points rubbing block to tilt relative to the cam.
4. Broken pigtail wire (only distributors with vacuum advance)
5. Bent spindle. You can detect this as inconsistent points clearance across the 4 lobes
6. The usual suspects - stretched advance springs, dirt and gunge and failure to properly lubricate the cam spindle resulting in sticking centrifugal advance.

Most cases of scatter that you may detect on electronic dwell meters are in fact false and caused by minor points bounce after closing. It's not enough to affect ignition operation but will cause a dwell meter to falsely register.

It's a pretty basic device and it's very easy to check the bearings for wear by attempting to rock the spindle sideways and comparing with a known good distributor.

[StressCraxx]

When the timing scatter is more than you can tolerate, a refurbish is in order

To be perfectly honest I've never come across a Lucas distributor with significant wear in the bronze spindle bush or the cam the spindle bearing. That's in a Lotus Twin Cam and many other cars using Lucas distributors that I've removed from scrapyards over the years.

The main problems I've come across are.
1. Wear on the support posts at either end of the advance springs (Mainly affects the later distributors with pressed metal posts)
2. Advance spring posts pulling inward over time (Again mainly affects distributors with pressed metal posts)
3. On distributors having vacuum advance facility only - breaker plate wear which causes the points rubbing block to tilt relative to the cam.
4. Broken pigtail wire (only distributors with vacuum advance)
5. Bent spindle. You can detect this as inconsistent points clearance across the 4 lobes
6. The usual suspects - stretched advance springs, dirt and gunge and failure to properly lubricate the cam spindle resulting in sticking centrifugal advance.

Most cases of scatter that you may detect on electronic dwell meters are in fact false and caused by minor points bounce after closing. It's not enough to affect ignition operation but will cause a dwell meter to falsely register.

It's a pretty basic device and it's very easy to check the bearings for wear by attempting to rock the spindle sideways and comparing with a known good distributor.

Mine had 180,000 miles. Needed new bushes (over 0.015" clearance/ovality) and refurbish/replaced most of the above. Works a treat now.

[alan.barker]

On a 1970 +2S i drove many miles it had a badly worn top Bush in Dissy. The Heel of the Cooper S Points snapped off. At the time i bought a new Dissy from Chris Neils that was fine. The only thing was the new Dissy had 2 Screws to hold the Cap on and not Clips.
Alan

[2cams70]

I've never used Cooper S points in a Lucas distributor but then again I've never in road car had the need to rev beyond 7,000RPM. No issue whatsoever with the standard spring tension. Perhaps that's why people wear out bushes! The only load on those bushes is from the spring tension from the points. They are (or should be) negligibly stressed.

[rgh0]

The best twin cam dizzy in existence is the one I have on my Elan

Made by a master craftsman locally who has since retired . It has a billet alloy body with roller bearings and Bosch components. Absolutely bullet proof and accurate to over 9000 rpm with points

Not much help for replication unless you can persuade someone to make one for you or you have a lot of machining skills. He made a few which will be scattered in historic racing engines in Australia, most of the current owners probably don't know what a gem they have !

cheers
Rohan

[alan.barker]

Well i used Cooper S points in my Plus 2 for many years.
There must be many Classic Cooper S cars running with worn out bushes.
All the Classic Minis used Lucas Dissys and in my 1964 1071cc Austin Cooper S it was standard equipement.
There was a mod you could do and that was fit a Dissy from a Massey Ferguson Tractor which had a Needle Roller Bearing at the top (as per Clive Trickey).
Distributor Docteur offers the Base Plate like from early Dissys so you can fit the CSI Cooper S Points.
These have a Tufnol Heel and are much much better than the crap from China. They also offer good Condensors or even Competition Condensors like what were used in the Cooper S cars for the "Monty Carlo Rally".
For sure it's a personal choice but if you have Points when they are burnt you can see the problem.
I suppose the truth is unless it's just a "Hall Effect" which i can replace with Points at the side of the road it's not for me.
Cheers

[elancoupe]

Keith Franck has done a large amount of work with Lucas distributors, if you read his conclusions, you will find that they contradict some of the previous comments on wear.

It’s interesting reading.

[2cams70]

The other contributory factor to bearing wear in the case of the Lucas distributor in Lotus application could of course be the great big heavy lump of out-of-balance on the end of the shaft - i.e the rotor button with centrifugal RPM limiter. Most of my experience is with Lucas distributors without the RPM limiter and therefore having the small light rotor button which isn't so out of balance.

[vstibbard]

+1 Rohan, I bought one 15-18 years ago for an Elan I was building for Sb, growing a new business got in the way and that car was finished and sold only 4 years ago, built to its original Group M spec. I've still got it boxed up, I'll use it F2 car or as a spare for the 26R.

I'd buy one on the latest 123+ bluetooth programmable distributor today, allows set up optimal advance easily in a single dyno session. The do version for top and side entry caps. A friend recently competed restoration of 1300GTA after much messing and mucho $$$$ restoring the original twin plug marelli they used adapted one of these and got a peaky engine idling smoothly and pulling earlier.

Cheers

V

[Davidb]

Rohan's comment reminds me of Carroll Smith' recommendation in "Tune to Win" .

I fitted the Pertronix electronic distributor to my modified S2 and, despite its failing once at a critical moment I would still recommend it! Your present distributor is worn and very old technology. I know, so is the car! But we want to enjoy driving them and mine is definately better with the Pertronix when it is working properly. They are designed so that a set of Cooper S type points and condenser (Lucas Red points apparently) can be fitted straight to the base plate-or so the engineer at Pertronix assured me. The advance curve is much better than the original S2 distributor. The identical unit is sold by Aldon Automotive in the UK I believe. Remember, 99% of cars on the road are using electronic ignition. It is probably here to stay...

[h20hamelan]

. As for the coil, I keep a couple blue bosch coils on the shelf. Some say that you need to be careful where they are made, and mine are the "recommended" made in Brazil variety, though I don't know if there is really a difference.

Comment on the Bosch “Blue”
There are in fact two, near identical numbered coils.
They both share the same numbers, though the “Brazil Blue Label” has an extra row.
Bosch has never got back to me on the reason for this. I suspect its German proprietary information they would never release.
The Bosch Blue coil is a blue body, though black cap now adays. I will throw some pics tomorrow.

Though I do not have a coil tester, my amp meter shows the Blue to be much higher. Probably in the 45-47k, where as the Blue Label is less than 42k. They both weigh the same, roughly. I suspect its the quality of the metal.

I ordered about every coil I could through my 5 suppliers. And the best was the MSD blaster 2 (i run in my Volvo 240, 740 . Needless to say, will only be using Bosch Blue moving forward. And interesting, the 5 and 6 cylinder “whiteblock coils work just as well, as did the 89-96 Ford F-150 high compression coil), or Accell square (cant recall its name)
Each supplier had their idea what would work the best. Seems to me, for less money ($35), the Bosch Blue is the best.

And, if i ever were needing to spend cash. I would go 123

[alan.barker]

To fit Cooper S Points it depends on the Base Plate of the Dissy.
The modern Points locate on a little Pip in the Base Plate.
The Cooper S Points PIVOT on a "Brass Pivot" which is riveted into the Base Plate.
Early Dissy Base Plates had the "Brass Pivot" but later ones had the little location Pip.
The early ones need the "Brass Pivot" where the newer Points have the "Pivot" integrated in their assembly.
Alan
ps: Cooper S points are made of Tufnol not red part n° CSI 1

[h20hamelan]

All three have the same number.

Blue Label (not for you Aussie's while working )
0221119027
906 859
K12V
Brazil

Blue coil 9 220081083
K12V
957 08
(0221119027)
Germany (though I see on-line, some being made in Brazil now!)

old 933
looks like the same 0221119027 but some of the numbers are removed

seems I was a little foggy on the line codes, as it was last summer.