Lotus Elan

CV Driveshafts

PostPost by: Andy8421 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:18 am

512BB wrote:I would not know who makes the best CVs Alan, they do not interest me. I had you down as an 'original' man anyway. Isn't your car fitted with donuts, or have I got that wrong? In any event A, you are missing the point of my post. Hope you are well, as you did not write anything here for a while. So looking forward to Sprinting in France again, but cant see it this year I am afraid. To many germs flying about for my liking.

Best

Leslie

P.S. There are no upgrades on an original Elan. Don't believe the hype

Leslie,

Are you sprinting an Elan with donuts? Assuming 'sprinting' means driving an Elan fast for competition, I would highly recommend you look further into it. I competed in a number of historic series a few years ago, and everyone had replaced their donuts with TTR hook jointed shafts. The donuts weren't up to the task, and were considered unsafe when they failed. Worth noting that in period, 26Rs used hook joints with ball splines instead of donuts.

Good luck.

Andy.
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PostPost by: 69S4 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:25 am

So where are we with rotoflex doughnuts these days - for road use anyway? Have they improved or are they still falling apart at a glance like they were reputed to do about 10yrs ago? I see the main parts suppliers are still selling them, with a 'genuine Lotus part' sticker on them - presumably to instill confidence that they're up to the task.
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PostPost by: SimonH » Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:32 am

69S4 wrote:I see the main parts suppliers are still selling them, with a 'genuine Lotus part' sticker on them - presumably to instill confidence that they're up to the task.


I expect the Lotus part sticker is genuine. The rubber thing probably less so
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PostPost by: 69S4 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:19 pm

SimonH wrote:
69S4 wrote:I see the main parts suppliers are still selling them, with a 'genuine Lotus part' sticker on them - presumably to instill confidence that they're up to the task.


I expect the Lotus part sticker is genuine. The rubber thing probably less so


That, of course, is the issue. I've been quite happy with rotoflexes for my normal gentle road use and would be ok with keeping them, but not if my £300 went in the bin after a few months - particularly given the expletive laden task that fitting them usually involves. I'd be better off spending the money on a CV conversion, but of course they seem to come with baggage as well. Or is it just a case of turning the dial up to 11 with opinions given that it's the internet and you have to shout loudly. :lol:
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PostPost by: Mazzini » Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:40 pm

69S4 wrote:
SimonH wrote:
69S4 wrote:I see the main parts suppliers are still selling them, with a 'genuine Lotus part' sticker on them - presumably to instill confidence that they're up to the task.


I expect the Lotus part sticker is genuine. The rubber thing probably less so
Or is it just a case of turning the dial up to 11 with opinions given that it's the internet and you have to shout loudly. :lol:


+1 to that!
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PostPost by: SimonH » Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:45 pm

69S4 wrote:
SimonH wrote:
69S4 wrote:I see the main parts suppliers are still selling them, with a 'genuine Lotus part' sticker on them - presumably to instill confidence that they're up to the task.


I expect the Lotus part sticker is genuine. The rubber thing probably less so


That, of course, is the issue. I've been quite happy with rotoflexes for my normal gentle road use and would be ok with keeping them, but not if my £300 went in the bin after a few months - particularly given the expletive laden task that fitting them usually involves. I'd be better off spending the money on a CV conversion, but of course they seem to come with baggage as well. Or is it just a case of turning the dial up to 11 with opinions given that it's the internet and you have to shout loudly. :lol:


I’d just do whatever you want and ignore most of the opinions on the internet. Genuine reasoning is different but as they say, opinions are like a****oles. Everyone has one and they are much braver behind a keyboard :lol:
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PostPost by: 512BB » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:02 am

Mark030358 wrote 'Not so sure why your having a dig, but anyone is free to PM me and I’ll answer any and all questions as best I can, usually with a phone call. I can’t remember, but did you ask or are you asking for a friend?

I may have been unlucky with the box, who knows, but it is very frustrating. The cost in terms of cash is relatively insignificant, however cost in terms of time to me is not.

Lets deal with the points that you make then. You say that you are very frustrated with your gearbox problem, as anyone would be, having had it rebuilt by a so called expert who you do not name.

Just how frustrating do you think it would be, if someone who reads these boards, member or not, has their gearbox rebuilt, unbeknown to them, by the same person or company that you used, and has a problem with it. If you had flagged up against that entity, STATING THE FACTS AS YOU FOUND THEM, ie your brass emulsion, then they, or anyone else, could form a more informed opinion on whether they would like to use that entity for a rebuild.

Now maybe Mauduit did write to you and ask you 'who', but how many people are going to do that? If you just describe the facts and write this is the company that I used, you are actually doing a service. It does not matter a jot to me, as I am never going to use anyone up your way for a gearbox overhaul or anything else, but you might just be doing someone a right favour by naming. I will leave it up to you to do the right thing, or not.

Mark also wrote 'As for the CV shafts, it had actually nothing to do with the droop, so I’ll let you speculate on other reasons. Suffice to say they are mechanically sound and have given no issues, it’s just a preventative thing.

I do not understand why you want to play games here. People are genuinely interested in why you changed from 'perfectly good' cv's to another set up. Maybe they are considering a purchase and are wondering which to go for. Or should they PM you about that as well?

Just my thoughts.

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PostPost by: 512BB » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:26 am

Andy8421 wrote 'Are you sprinting an Elan with donuts? Assuming 'sprinting' means driving an Elan fast for competition, I would highly recommend you look further into it. I competed in a number of historic series a few years ago, and everyone had replaced their donuts with TTR hook jointed shafts.'

No Andy, by Sprinting in France I just meant driving a Sprint on holiday in France, which I have done for the past 10 years, ending in 2019 for obvious reasons.

You also wrote 'The donuts weren't up to the task, and were considered unsafe when they failed'.

That is because the racers nowadays, fortunately have not taken the time to search out new old stock donuts made up till about 1990 I would guess, which COULD take the strain. Hmm, smell that lovely sulphur in the rubber.

Only yesterday, I had a deal with a chap for 2 nos donuts made God knows when, but old style donuts. Just like a certain gentleman in Oz who has enough clutch release bearings to see him out, I think I probably have enough old donuts so see me through to the end, whenever that might be. 40k miles and counting on my everyday Sprint, on the same set of donuts. Checked for splits every couple of months, to be sure, to be sure.

All the best,

Leslie
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PostPost by: USA64 » Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:20 pm

I think I probably have enough old donuts so see me through to the end, whenever that might be.


Might that not be the problem? If tires age-out in 8-10 yr why would the rubber in the donuts be different?
I'm using donuts at this point. They cost 2/3 of the CV conversion so not really a savings but I thought they would behave more as designed.
At the rate I'm going they might age-out before I get the car back on the road! :shock:
We are supposed to be having fun, are we not?
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PostPost by: RichardHawkins » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:47 pm

Excuse me for changing the topic. Tyres are probably subject to ultraviolet light degradation and may well be a different type of rubber. My personal problem with rubber components are the seals at the lower end of the front uprights where the trunnions join the uprights. I have changed these twice during my restoration and need to do so again. Does anyone know a source of good seals?

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PostPost by: mark030358 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:18 am

Just how frustrating do you think it would be, if someone who reads these boards, member or not, has their gearbox rebuilt, unbeknown to them, by the same person or company that you used, and has a problem with it. If you had flagged up against that entity, STATING THE FACTS AS YOU FOUND THEM, ie your brass emulsion, then they, or anyone else, could form a more informed opinion on whether they would like to use that entity for a rebuild.


Why are you shouting? Chill…..

Now maybe Mauduit did write to you and ask you 'who', but how many people are going to do that? If you just describe the facts and write this is the company that I used, you are actually doing a service. It does not matter a jot to me, as I am never going to use anyone up your way for a gearbox overhaul or anything else, but you might just be doing someone a right favour by naming. I will leave it up to you to do the right thing, or not


As for PM’s, as many as are interested I hope and as I stated I may have been unlucky. Interesting that you know who asked too. The comment of yours “Up your way” was a bit condescending, but hey, it’s a forum.

Mark also wrote 'As for the CV shafts, it had actually nothing to do with the droop, so I’ll let you speculate on other reasons. Suffice to say they are mechanically sound and have given no issues, it’s just a preventative thing.

I do not understand why you want to play games here. People are genuinely interested in why you changed from 'perfectly good' cv's to another set up. Maybe they are considering a purchase and are wondering which to go for. Or should they PM you about that as well?


As I said, there was a massive rant on here re CV’s and one dude got right royally torn to pieces, maybe in part due to a bad attitude (but I speculate there, as I can’t be bothered looking for it again). And yes, people can PM me over the issue. However, when the gaiters are in great condition and CVs start to leak grease from between the flanges, brakes tend not to work so well when contaminated, well at least not up here.

I just could not be bothered with the hassle of splitting them, sealing and refitting. Better for me to,just buy a new set as my time is worth more… there, happy?

Cheers
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PostPost by: alanr » Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:10 am

Ok, so just to confirm, the problem you are having with the SM/Kelvedon CV's is that they are leaking grease between the actual CV and the drive flanges?...Yes?
That is very useful information to hear about and something we all need to be aware of if/when purchasing these items so that we can do something about it before actually fitting them to our cars. Freely sharing this sort of information about products being supplied helps all of us doesn't it!

Thank you. :D

Alan.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:56 am

+1
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PostPost by: mark030358 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:32 am

alanr wrote:Ok, so just to confirm, the problem you are having with the SM/Kelvedon CV's is that they are leaking grease between the actual CV and the drive flanges?...Yes?
That is very useful information to hear about and something we all need to be aware of if/when purchasing these items so that we can do something about it before actually fitting them to our cars. Freely sharing this sort of information about products being supplied helps all of us doesn't it!

Thank you. :D

Alan.


Let’s just say I “the shafts I have, bought maybe +15 years ago”.

Maybe 2000 miles on them and a ring of grease around the wheel arch. I’m pretty sure some rtv will fix the issue.

I would like to say that bad mouthing suppliers in public is not good cricket, well not up here anyway. It’s a hard and thankless job supplying parts for very old cars. Myself personally, I can’t thank these people enough for trying, some of them being wonderful to deal with, others less so.

Bad workmanship, plain old bad luck or bad parts, who knows what causes issues these days, but when something goes wrong after a lot of effort it is very frustrating.

Cheers
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:57 am

Thanks Mark,
and fair comment.
The suppliers are also at the mercy of the machine shops that make the things.
If a problem they can visit the machine shop and do a sample approval to correct problem. Maybe this will show a need for design modification. QC/QA action needed and new approval.
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