Lotus Elan

Issue 16 and 18 uprights

PostPost by: MartinH » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:56 pm

I have searched on the forum but cannot find a direct answer to this

Is it OK to run with one of each, issue 16 and 18 uprights on my 1967 S3/4 Elan?
I am aware of the inner bearing width difference between the two.
I have brand new TTR solid billet shafts and hubs to fit but, the replacement upright, following the failure of the hub nut thread and susequent wheel loss, is an issue 18. The one I already have on the car is a 16.

The TTR shafts come with a spacer to use to align the bearing circlip with the groove on the issue 16 and will fit without the spacer on the issue 18.....i think

I would welcome any thoughts on this

Thanks
Martin
1967 Elan convertible S4 body and Spyder chassis
Ducati Monster S4
Ducati 1098s
MartinH
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 73
Joined: 03 Jun 2012
Location: Normandie France

PostPost by: bitsobrits » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:35 pm

Don't know if I can definitively answer if its okay or not, but I did exactly that for about a dozen years with my current S1 (which had one Issue 18 and one with no markings at all as received) before I found a second hand Issue 18 housing.

Fundamental dimensions are the same (as an assembled unit), so I don't think the car really cares.
Steve

Elan S1 1963-Bourne bodied
Elan S3 1967 FHC pre airflow

Formerly:
Elan S1 1964
Elan S3 1966 FHC pre airflow
Elan S3 1967 FHC airflow
Elan S4 1969 FHC
Europa S2 1970
Esprit S2 1979
bitsobrits
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 296
Joined: 27 Apr 2011
Location: Omaha, NE area

PostPost by: Craven » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:33 pm

TTR shaft has the circlip groove position that accommodates a wide bearing fitted in an issue 18 hub, the spacers supplied allows the shaft to be fitted in an issue 16 hub that has a narrow bearing.
So you fit a wide bearing to the shaft for the issue 18 hub but need the spacer when you use the shaft with issue 16 hub. You can’t fit a narrow bearing in an issue 18 hub.
I don’t think it’s generally known but the actual running races of both wide and narrow bearings are the same, size and number of balls is identical. Extra width comes from improved sealing on the inside face, introduced by Ford to stop the oil in their live axle reaching the brake drum.
FWIW
Craven
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Location: south coast uk

PostPost by: MartinH » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:31 am

It seems to me that there should be no reason not to run one of each hub carrier/upright on a car. If the inner bearing is in fact the same size in all respects other than the seal then, the loads on each side should be the same?

As Bitsobrits has already done it successfully for 12 years without any problems looks like it is a safe thing to do. I will keep my eye out for either another issue 16 or 18 carrier/upright to match it up for the sake of symmetry.but at the moment I just want to get back on the road.

Thanks as usual for the valuable comments

Martin
1967 Elan convertible S4 body and Spyder chassis
Ducati Monster S4
Ducati 1098s
MartinH
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 73
Joined: 03 Jun 2012
Location: Normandie France

PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:13 am

Hi Martin,
you decided not to get the the damaged Strut welded then.
I have a freind near Yvetot Normandie who knows elans very well and might be able to help if you like.
Send me a Private Message and i can give you his contact details.
Amicalement
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: MartinH » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:50 am

Thanks Alan PM sent
1967 Elan convertible S4 body and Spyder chassis
Ducati Monster S4
Ducati 1098s
MartinH
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 73
Joined: 03 Jun 2012
Location: Normandie France

PostPost by: Craven » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:34 am

If you don’t already have a new wide bearing, if possible buy a known quality bearing. You will also need the thin gauge dust shield that was an addition, fitted on the spider side, with the wide bearing.
On most wide bearing available there is a shoulder on one side of the inner race this faces the centre of the hub when fitted.
Craven
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Location: south coast uk

PostPost by: MartinH » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:48 pm

@ Craven

Thanks for that very valuable info.

Martin
1967 Elan convertible S4 body and Spyder chassis
Ducati Monster S4
Ducati 1098s
MartinH
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 73
Joined: 03 Jun 2012
Location: Normandie France

PostPost by: JLescenski » Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:23 am

How do you tell the difference between the issue 16 and 18? Mine look slightly different from each other. One has what looks like a brake line clip welded to the upright and the other looks like a small bolt. I would take a picture, but I dropped them off at the shop to have the hubs pulled (I exhausted my abilities in separating them)
JLescenski
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 19
Joined: 23 Apr 2020
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA

PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:03 am

Inner Bearing width
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:11 am

JLescenski wrote:How do you tell the difference between the issue 16 and 18? Mine look slightly different from each other. One has what looks like a brake line clip welded to the upright and the other looks like a small bolt. I would take a picture, but I dropped them off at the shop to have the hubs pulled (I exhausted my abilities in separating them)


The numbers are on the casting (at least for the Issue 18 casting from memory ) in addition to the inner bearing outer race seat width difference

The one with a bolt in the shock tube is probably an early issue 16 as these did not originally have an insert shock but the tube formed the body of the shock and the small bolt was the oil fill point.

I would suspect the brake line clip one may be Issue 18 as that is what is on my S4 Elan and their is none on the spare Issue 16 casting I have had kicking around under my bench for 40 years, just the bolt in the tube!

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7764
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests