Lotus Elan

26r rear drivetrain conversion

PostPost by: ChrisD » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:00 pm

I am interested in thoughts about complete 26r rear drivetrain conversion. I want it to be bullet proof for my 26r clone.
Does anyone know if there are differences between TTR and Kelsport offers?
Did you have problems?
Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Cheers, Christian
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PostPost by: Famous Frank » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:43 am

Good question. I've wondered that myself. What are the differences between TTR 26R Suspension components and Kelsport?
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PostPost by: 661 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:48 am

I can't comment on the Kelsport system other than I've seen it close up and it looks very good.
The TTR one I've fitted appears bulletproof.
Very well made.
The picture you show appears to have a bronze/alloy hub. The TTR one is steel and it does start to collect surface rust. It is just long enough to protrude through the wheels enough to allow locking wheel wires on the hub if that is your chosen method.
There are two main issues. The large central bolt fouls the UJ. It will do it on all cars regardless of set up and why they don't supply it ready-machined is beyond me.
Secondly, in order to get the calipers centralised you need to machine down the 'spacer' by several thou ( think mine was 15 and 20 thou). If this is not ground down absolutely flat it causes disk run out. I gave mine to a local engineering firm who had a 'million pound machine and if there's a problem it will be with your disc'.
There was no problem with the disc until I gave it to them and it developed a 4mm run out! I sent the spacer to TTR and they gave it to an 'old bloke with a stone' and it's come back true.
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PostPost by: Elan45 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:07 am

I'm quite interested in this topic, because my 26R clone was built sometime after purchase in 1967 and 1974, when the original owner died. The owner's son took over the car and crashed it over the winter of 1974 to 75. I bought it from the estate in 1984, and since I was already finishing another project, it went into a corner of the garage to await its turn. Then I bought a Lotus Eleven project that was slotted into the next restoration slot. The short of it is that its still in that same garage corner, but getting close to coming out of a long sleep.

So, when my car was built in the late 60s/ early 70s. The only source for 26R parts for the conversion from S3 SE to 26R was from Lotus Components, so as I start the restoration, I'm interested in interchangeabilty of current parts with the parts my car was built with 50 years ago.

My rear hubs are S2 type and steel. The front hubs are bronze.

In 2016, I raced at the VSCDA Grattan event and there was a 26R or clone there that had a safety on the 3-eared spinners that did not involve safety wiring an ear of the spinner. It was an elegant solution and I intended to go back w/ my camera but it was a strange weekend and that car was loaded and gone on Saturday afternoon. I'll have to look at my hubs to see if I can jog my memory.

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PostPost by: vstibbard » Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:53 am

I've got the original parts out of my 26R and a set of NOS spares which came with it, I now use new TTR set up on my 26R.

There are differences, which would preclude you mixing new and old parts in the rear, front no issues. I can also vouch for the need to have the rear bearing spacers and the disk spacer ground absolutely true, one of the rear bearing spacers was not surface ground true and it created a shocking vibration at speed. Very hard to find when the cars assembled. Now fixed in current rebuild
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PostPost by: ChrisD » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:45 am

Thanks for your posts.
I intend to do it safe and sound.
These conversions cure the week point of a hub axle breaking and loosing the wheel with the hub.
What I expect to be little critical could lbe the point where the yoke flange ist put together with the hub. The connection teeth look like not being too long and there are forces. Doesn' t the yoke flange come loose?
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:34 pm

Just to add a few observations...

I'm building a GTS car with a mix of KL and TTR rear suspension parts but I will be using bolt on Minilite style wheels.

I chose the TTR half shafts (3 bolt) and have in effect KL for the inner parts. It all went together fine.

The reason for choosing the TTR half shafts was that at the time the KL half shafts were very heavy (this has now been amended by KL). Yes, I'm one of those anoraks who checks the weight of everything!

The "easter eggs" discovered on this were fairly simple:

- the bolt-on Minilites supplied for the Elan require 10mm rear spacers...
- the wheel nuts (60° conical type) are quite heavy and 4 of them weigh as much as the very hefty 26R aluminium spinner
- the rear calipers need washers to set up the alignment with the discs correctly...

I hope this helps!

Andrew
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:28 am

A strong but simple option would be to use the uprated steel axles (AKA S1 26R) that TTR and KL sell and with new steel rear hubs rather than cost and setup hassles of the full 26R S2 setup, its also worth noting that the sliding spline axles for Elans do not have gaiters to keep dirt etc away and require regular servicing.

I've used this set up on an S1 Elan for historic racing.

Cheers

V
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PostPost by: ChrisD » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:56 am

Thanks for your thoughts. Do you think the steel hub shafts are that strong that they won't break even under hardest conditions as bad surfaces on hillclimbs roads? There is also a keyless version available. This should be stronger. I think to find some suitable gaitors to protect the splines from dust must be possible.
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:02 am

Rohan who is on the forum has raced his S4 for many years with steel axles and had no issues, assemble carefully lapping faces etc and it will be fine. I had an S4 that I raced in historics for a season with no issues, using R type tyres. Another friend rallies and drives very hard and he uses the same set up.

I'd agree if you were buying today I'd buy the keyless version.

The length of the sliding axles is not long enough to allow for a boot.

Cheers

V
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PostPost by: greg40green » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:58 pm

Does any know the price comparison for the whole set from TTR and Kelverdon ?
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PostPost by: Davidb » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:58 pm

I bought 26R hubs and steel shafts from Kelveden. The steel shafts were fine although if I were to do it again I think I would buy from TTR-there is a slight difference in design that I like.

The hubs however were another issue. The threads on the rear hubs simply didn't look right and when I tried to fit the knock offs they would barely go on. I contacted Kelveden and they said it must be my knock-offs but they could be swapped around and would fit fine-the problem was the threads on the rear (steel) hubs. I asked who cut the threads and if they used CNC-(it certainly did not appear so). All communication with Kelveden ceased at that point! I spent hours with cutting paste working the knock-offs back and forth to finally get the threads on the hubs to work.
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PostPost by: ChrisD » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:42 pm

Do you use shafts with hubs to be put on or do you use the 26r s2 one piece style with drive shaft yoke to be screwed on as shown on pictures?
Where are your spinners sourced from?
And did the four pegs pattern from your wheels fit well to hubs?
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PostPost by: Davidb » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:28 am

I used the 26R SI style - I have U jointed shafts that have been on the car since the sixties.

The four pegs fit properly in wheels. The knock offs are from Dave Bean Engineering-the problem was with the threads on the hubs that look like they were done by a blind apprentice.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:46 am

vstibbard wrote:Rohan who is on the forum has raced his S4 for many years with steel axles and had no issues, assemble carefully lapping faces etc and it will be fine. I had an S4 that I raced in historics for a season with no issues, using R type tyres. Another friend rallies and drives very hard and he uses the same set up.

I'd agree if you were buying today I'd buy the keyless version.

The length of the sliding axles is not long enough to allow for a boot.

Cheers

V

Yes the TTR steel wheel axles and bolt on steel hubs will take any punishment you can give them for many years if properly assembled and have done so on my S4 in Historic racing

cheers
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