My Voigt 5-speed conversion

[englishmaninwales]

Yes I agree, no worries, I’ve used that AP clutch /T9 BGH combination in competition for years with no problems in my Caterham. I have seen a couple of APs disintegrate, but only in competition use with very high power/torque engines, super soft compound sprint tyres and in both cases the driver admitted to poor technique downshifting.

[pharriso]

One more piece of the Voigt kit that I am replacing is the shift saddle. I had posted before that it looked like in my testing of the gears that I might have damaged it. I now think that the saddle was just an old one retained during the building up of the gearbox. The amount of scoring and chewed up bits of plastic do not comport with the minimal amount of test shifting that I did with the uninstalled gearbox.

Here is a comparison of the new shift saddle (white) vs the existing one delivered with the Voigt gearbox.

IMG_5348.jpeg

IMG_5349.jpeg

I think this is a reminder that these 5-speed kits are not made from new materials. An existing, used Type 9 box is the starting point. In the process, presumably serviceable parts are retained in cases where the new Lotus conversion parts are not involved. For example, existing gears are normally retained (synchros, bearings, etc, as well?). That is partly why I opted for a completely new BGH gearset.

The existing shift saddle, I suppose is serviceable, but with a broken tab and the erosion evidenced, I would not have hesitated to replace it. Apparently, these are an expendable item and get replaced as the gear shift action becomes less precise over time.

I could be wrong about the shift saddle not being a new piece but the evidence seems to contradict that. In any event, I have a new one to now install. And one less excuse for not proceeding with installation.

How would I remove my saddle to check it? Gearbox is sitting on the basement floor, gear lever not installed.

What's the par number of the replacement part & where did you buy it from? Learning from other's...

[gjz30075]

Phil and 1owner... Burton has the bronze type.
https://www.burtonpower.com/hd-brass-sa ... t9539.html

Might be better than plastic, long term.

[1owner69Elan]

One more piece of the Voigt kit that I am replacing is the shift saddle. I had posted before that it looked like in my testing of the gears that I might have damaged it. I now think that the saddle was just an old one retained during the building up of the gearbox. The amount of scoring and chewed up bits of plastic do not comport with the minimal amount of test shifting that I did with the uninstalled gearbox.

Here is a comparison of the new shift saddle (white) vs the existing one delivered with the Voigt gearbox.

IMG_5348.jpeg

IMG_5349.jpeg

I think this is a reminder that these 5-speed kits are not made from new materials. An existing, used Type 9 box is the starting point. In the process, presumably serviceable parts are retained in cases where the new Lotus conversion parts are not involved. For example, existing gears are normally retained (synchros, bearings, etc, as well?). That is partly why I opted for a completely new BGH gearset.

The existing shift saddle, I suppose is serviceable, but with a broken tab and the erosion evidenced, I would not have hesitated to replace it. Apparently, these are an expendable item and get replaced as the gear shift action becomes less precise over time.

I could be wrong about the shift saddle not being a new piece but the evidence seems to contradict that. In any event, I have a new one to now install. And one less excuse for not proceeding with installation.

How would I remove my saddle to check it? Gearbox is sitting on the basement floor, gear lever not installed.

What's the par number of the replacement part & where did you buy it from? Learning from other's...

Steve: The saddle just clips onto the shaft. I used a pair of pliers to grasp the vertical edge piece and lifted up.

I shopped the plastic one as well as the metal one. In the end I decided to use the plastic one for multiple reasons:

1. The metal one seems to rattle or buzz, according to reports. It's metal on metal and potentially noisy
2. The plastic one with plastic on metal should be quieter and somewhat self-lubricating
3. I think one can change this saddle with the gearbox in situ at a later point if the saddle wears out - so longevity not critical
4. The metal saddle requires crimping the retention tabs together. Just a bit more work and in a tight spot.
5. My car is for the street. Even with spirited driving, the plastic version should be OK for some time. The metal one is intended for hard competition use.

It's true Burtons has both types but the shipping for these small bits is ridiculous. I found a source here in the States that carries both the plastic and metal versions. Cost more than Burtons ($12 vs $6.50) but the shipping is much less. Came in a few days after ordering even with the pandemic. The metal one is $39.

Source: http://racerwalsh.com/product/shifter-s ... g-rwa3149/

http://racerwalsh.com/product/shifter-s ... g-rwa3148/

[1owner69Elan]

Well, I installed the new plastic shift saddle. It doesn't really clip on to the shaft (the inner radius is too small compared to the original Voigt one). When I remove the shift lever the saddle is retained inside the lever fork and lifts out with it. Probably OK, while the shift lever fork is in place, but the new plastic part really strikes me as rather flimsy.

I am now rethinking about going with the brass saddle instead, as well as getting a different plastic one - this time from the UK. The US sourced repro part is not of same dimensions as supplied by Voigt.

Also, did some further measuring of the throw of the T9 lever vs the stock four speed. What I discovered is that the throws (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-5) are all around 30 degrees for the T9. The stock 4-speed shift throws, on the contrary, are 20 degrees. Thus, the nice short throws of the 4 speed, that we all are familiar with, are not replicated. Coupled with a longer shift lever on the Voigt box, the length of the throws is further accentuated.

Thus, starting to revisit the short shift kit for the T9. The adaptation of the Quaife short shifter but using a Lotus stick as previously posted by CBUEB1771 (Russ Newton) may be the best way to go, especially if the standard "short" bent Quaife shifter is too short.

I seem to be able to easily find new avenues to stall my progress.

[2cams70]

t's true Burtons has both types but the shipping for these small bits is ridiculous.

Yes shipping from Burtons is crazy expensive for small parts at the moment. They say they are only shipping DHL due to CV19 Royal Mail delays. Personally I don't mind waiting. Other suppliers in the UK are still shipping at more reasonable cost however.

[1owner69Elan]

t's true Burtons has both types but the shipping for these small bits is ridiculous.

Yes shipping from Burtons is crazy expensive for small parts at the moment. They say they are only shipping DHL due to CV19 Royal Mail delays. Personally I don't mind waiting. Other suppliers in the UK are still shipping at more reasonable cost however.

I just emailed Burtons to see if they would use the Royal Mail. Sounds like you have provided the answer.

[pharriso]

Per your instructions I just pulled the saddle out of my tail housing; looks like:

Totally missing the tab!

New one looks like:

The tab is missing. I assume this is important?

Gearbox was overhauled by Alan Voght prior to shipment to the US...

[mbell]

I have a unused metal one I got from Greg (gjz30075) with some 5 speed gear stick bits. I have no use for it as it isn't need with the lotus box.

Providing Greg doesn't want it back happy to send it to you for a suitable donation to the forum.

[1owner69Elan]

Pm sent. Let me know if you got it. I seem to be having a problem sending PM’s.

[gjz30075]

I don't need it back, Mark Thanks!

[1owner69Elan]

t's true Burtons has both types but the shipping for these small bits is ridiculous.

Yes shipping from Burtons is crazy expensive for small parts at the moment. They say they are only shipping DHL due to CV19 Royal Mail delays. Personally I don't mind waiting. Other suppliers in the UK are still shipping at more reasonable cost however.

Burtons reports that they have no collection service from the Royal Mail, at the moment. Thus, all shipments must be done by courier.

[CBUEB1771]

Thus, starting to revisit the short shift kit for the T9. The adaptation of the Quaife short shifter but using a Lotus stick as previously posted by CBUEB1771 (Russ Newton) may be the best way to go, especially if the standard "short" bent Quaife shifter is too short.

The gear lever adaption I made is for the the +2, I'll have to take a look at what needs to be different for an Elan. I post photos and instructions for what I did.

Russ

[1owner69Elan]

Also, did some further measuring of the throw of the T9 lever vs the stock four speed. What I discovered is that the throws (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-5) are all around 30 degrees for the T9. The stock 4-speed shift throws, on the contrary, are 20 degrees. Thus, the nice short throws of the 4 speed, that we all are familiar with, are not replicated. Coupled with a longer shift lever on the Voigt box, the length of the throws is further accentuated.

Just a bit more information on the difference in shift throws. Besides measuring the angle as above, did an approximate (but reasonably close) measurement of the linear throw distance and found this:

Stock 4-speed: 2.75"
Voigt 5 speed (with supplied stick): 5"

Also, correlates with my calculations from the angle sweep and lever arm to pivot point.

So, a significant difference. Further moves me toward the Quaife short shifter. I don't think I am going to be pleased with an almost doubling of the throw on the Voigt. While I have engineering drawings for the Quaife, they don't show where the pivot point is. But, estimating it, the Quaife will bring the Voigt box back close to the stock throw. I might have to lengthen the short bent 8" Quaife version a bit - but that can be adjusted/dialed-in later with a short extension if desired.

[CBUEB1771]

Stock 4-speed: 2.75"
Voigt 5 speed (with supplied stick): 5"

I have never measured the throw with my modified Quafe gear lever. I should be able to do that in the next day or so. There is a minimum about of work needed to install the Quaife lever. The Quaife pivot housing drops into the counterbore on the tail housing. The counterbore of the Voight tail housing is not as deep as the counterbore in the standard T9 tail housing. I had to cut the Quaife pivot housing down on a lathe to compensate. No big deal but something to know about ahead of time.