Lotus Elan

My Voigt 5-speed conversion

PostPost by: alan.barker » Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:57 am

You can use the new gearbox to line up Clutch.
Have you had the Flywheel resurfaced also to make sure everything is perfect :wink: :wink:
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PostPost by: oldchieft » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:47 pm

Most times I have lined it up by eye, followed up by my finger in the hole.

Not had a problem.

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PostPost by: alanr » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:45 pm

You can easily make a clutch alignment tool out of a piece of suitable thickness wood or round wooden shaft. Done it numerous times with different cars that I have owned.
Save your money....

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PostPost by: steve lyle » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:45 am

Today I did some prep.

1) Thanks for the ideas about alignment tools and flywheel surfacing. My flywheel was pristine, so I'll skip that. I borrowed a generic alignment tool from Autozone (for free) and got the new clutch on.

2) One little gotcha - you reuse your old speedometer gear housing. The kit has a new hold-down clamp for that, but you can't reuse the clamp bolt because the new threads are metric, and there isn't a bolt in the kit for that. Luck I had a 10mm-headed bolt available (8.8mm thread?).

3) The new prop-shaft yoke is longer than the original - see pic. Not knowing that at the time, I went searching yesterday for info on how to replace the yoke (still looking for how to do that) and saw a thread that distributors have been shipping longer yokes as replacements, and they don't fit between the original tranny and diff without shortening the shaft. Not sure if that's true with the T9, but I've sent that question to Alan. If anyone has experience with the Voigt tranny with the longer yoke, please let me know.

4) But yeah - how do you get the old yoke off? I've got the circlips off. Do I put the thing in a vise with a small socket on one bearing cap and a large socket on the opposite one, and push it out with a vise? The workshop manual says to either tap the yoke radius with a copper hammer (no luck with that approach) or drift out the race from the inside, which I can't see how to do. Any ideas welcome.
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:48 am

Steve
Yes, you're correct with the sockets in the vice ... and then pipe grips to pull the cups free.

John ;-)
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PostPost by: alanr » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:49 am

Steve,
Re-Removing/replacing the universal joint
Yes your idea of putting the joint in a vice with a small socket on one side and a large socket on the other is the best solution to replacing the universal joint. Hitting with a hammer is not the way to go!
I would fit a complete new universal joint though whilst you have it pieces. Much care needs to be taken to get spot on alignment when squeezing the cups of the joint back in and together. If it doesn't squeeze up easily and you can't get the circlips back in you know you haven't got the alignment right and will probably have dropped a needle roller and the joint or at least that cup will be scrap.

Alan.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:02 am

For Info:
After fitting a new Clutch on my Sprint there used to be vibration when hot sometimes. I learned to live with it for several Years.
Then one day i took up enough courage to remove the Engine and fix the problem.
What i found was new Clutch dry and no contamination OK.
I looked at the Flywheel and it was nice and shinny with no scoring or marks :)
I laid a Straight Edge across the Flywheel Surface and bingo it was very slightly convex :?
So i got the Flywheel surfaced so it was flat.
Now the Clutch is perfect hot or cold and well pleased.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:34 am

Before assembling the Cups put more Grease inside to hold the Needles in place☺ Alan
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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:47 pm

Well, after waiting since Dec 2018 my Voigt 5 speed gearbox just showed up. Amazing shipping time: it was picked up this last Friday afternoon from Alan Voigt at his Wallasey (Liverpool) shop and arrived at my residence in Napa, California the following Monday morning. Even counting the 8 hour time difference, really fast.
IMG_5104.jpeg and


A lesson to this fast time perhaps is that I did all the paperwork from my end. Alan didn't have to do anything except package the gearbox. He didn't even put the shipping label on it. Shipper did everything.

Happy to assist any others who might be shipping from Voigts in the future. Critical to get the customs forms (proper commodity code) and packing list set up correctly to avoid delays. Shipper (Transglobal Express - via DHL) makes an easy job of this online.

The shipping cost of 150 pounds, I also thought was quite reasonable, considering the 55 kg shipping weight and distance. This was for "regular" Express handling. I did pay another 50 pounds for insurance (the gearbox, after all, was 3500 pounds - with a full new BGH close ratio gearset installed). And US customs fees were another $150. So, all in all, not an inexpensive proposition.

Now, I have a project to keep me busy during the virus lockdown. After I disinfect the box as recommended.
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PostPost by: steve lyle » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:34 pm

1owner69Elan wrote:Well, after waiting since Dec 2018 my Voigt 5 speed gearbox just showed up. Amazing shipping time: it was picked up this last Friday afternoon from Alan Voigt at his Wallasey (Liverpool) shop and arrived at my residence in Napa, California the following Monday morning. Even counting the 8 hour time difference, really fast.
IMG_5104.jpeg


A lesson to this fast time perhaps is that I did all the paperwork from my end. Alan didn't have to do anything except package the gearbox. He didn't even put the shipping label on it. Shipper did everything.

Happy to assist any others who might be shipping from Voigts in the future. Critical to get the customs forms (proper commodity code) and packing list set up correctly to avoid delays. Shipper (Transglobal Express - via DHL) makes an easy job of this online.

The shipping cost of 150 pounds, I also thought was quite reasonable, considering the 55 kg shipping weight and distance. This was for "regular" Express handling. I did pay another 50 pounds for insurance (the gearbox, after all, was 3500 pounds - with a full new BGH close ratio gearset installed). And US customs fees were another $150. So, all in all, not an inexpensive proposition.

Now, I have a project to keep me busy during the virus lockdown. After I disinfect the box as recommended.


Yep, you definitely saved a bit compared to what I paid. Not to mention your shipping time being about a month quicker!

BTW - I heard back from Alan - no issue with the longer yoke, that's what the T9 needs.

So tomorrow will be driveshaft work. And maybe chassis trimming.
Steve Lyle
1972 Elan Sprint 0248k @ https://www.mgexp.com/registry/1972-Lot ... 48K.30245/
1972 MGB Roadster @ https://www.mgexp.com/registry/1972-MG- ... 842G.4498/
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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:26 pm

I have opened the Voigts box. I was surprised to find a new pressure plate inside. I was expecting only the driven friction plate.

IMG_5113.jpeg and


I think Alan might be including the pressure plate now to avoid mismatches with the concentric slave cylinder. Mazzini sent me his instructions from years back that included the requirement to measure the pressure plate height as some covers required too much slave movement, ultimately leading to failure.

Not sure if I will use my current plate (also relatively new) or this new one. After I check the height. Concerned about balancing.

I was also a bit disappointed with the finish on the shift lever. Not a particularly clean weld at the angle joint. Finished with chipped black paint. If I keep this, I'll probably clean up the weld further and repaint / chrome.
IMG_5117.jpeg and


Also, my first impression is that the lever is much taller than the stock 4-speed one. Haven't verified that yet, suppose it also depends on what the T9 shift linkage opening height is when installed in the car (perhaps lower?). It will also look shorter with the boot around the base. But, still looks tall, methinks.
IMG_5118.jpeg and
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PostPost by: steve lyle » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:11 pm

Yeah, I was wondering about the shift lever, too.

I'm hoping, and maybe expecting, that the vertical portion is covered by the rubber boot - so all you see is the top few inches of the ever - i.e., the weld is hidden.

And maybe a future winter project is to have the lever chromed if the black bugs me.

Also I think the threaded portion is too long - I might shorten that a bit so no threads are showing when the knob is tight.
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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:09 am

I checked the gear ratios on the Voigt box to ensure that I had indeed received the close ratio gear box (2.66, 1.75, 1.26, 1.0, 0.82). All checked out. Not sure about 5th being 0.82 or 0.84 as I didn't measure that precisely.

I found that the alloy speedo blanking plug from my 4-speed (never installed) fits the Voigt box perfectly. This is a low profile plug as shown. (I'll be adding a retention bracket to this later but the plug fits quite snugly with an o-ring, as well).
IMG_5124.jpg and


This leads me to believe that I can reduce the area cutout specified by Voigt for the chassis. I believe the portion to the left (viewing into the tunnel from the front) is largely cutout to accommodate the right angle speedo drive. With the GPS speedo I don't have this "appendage" and just the blanking plug instead. Thus, I think I can reduce the cutout area to just accommodate the gearbox tail shaft "spine" only (not remove the green hatched area). Wondering if that makes sense to those who have installed the Voigt box.
Voigt reduced.jpg and
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:44 am

I must say the idea of a 5 speed box in my Sprint sounds very tempting.
In my 1978 TVR 3000S a 5 speed (T9 with bigger Bearing) has been fitted to replace the original 4 speed and it is fantastic.
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PostPost by: Mazzini » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:22 am

steve lyle wrote:Yeah, I was wondering about the shift lever, too.

I'm hoping, and maybe expecting, that the vertical portion is covered by the rubber boot - so all you see is the top few inches of the ever - i.e., the weld is hidden.

And maybe a future winter project is to have the lever chromed if the black bugs me.

Also I think the threaded portion is too long - I might shorten that a bit so no threads are showing when the knob is tight.


It was probably just a one off, but my gear lever broke the weld. It was not an issue to fix it, but might be worth checking the lever before fitting.
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