Lotus Elan

Need some help reviewing a T9 installation

PostPost by: tjb0274 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:35 am

I've recently bought an S4 (there's a thread in the general discussion section with pics and overview of the car).

The car has a T9 installed, and I'm interested in whether the installation looks ok, and whether anyone can identify if it's a kit from Voights or similar. I should mention that the car is not currently going, and I mainly want to check whether I need to do anything about the gearbox during the recommissioning.

I've posted some pics below. I'm particularly concerned about the rear mount and the rather haphazard looking shimming between it and the gearbox case. Grateful for any feedback :-)
Attachments
img_20180602_144435.jpg and
img_20180602_145210.jpg and
img_20180602_144403.jpg and
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:40 am

The quality of the installation of the rear mount does not look great. The UNC bolt and plain nut fitted to the rear of the gear box housing and the amount of silicone sealant used does not fill me with confidence either.

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PostPost by: tjb0274 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:50 am

rgh0 wrote:The quality of the installation of the rear mount does not look great. The UNC bolt and plain nut fitted to the rear of the gear box housing and the amount of silicone sealant used does not fill me with confidence either.

cheers
Rohan


Yeah, I hear you. I think at a minimum I'll have to take the mounting off and have a good look, and maybe see if there's a better solution than what's been done.

I'm not super-happy about the proximity of the exhaust either.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:05 am

It does not look like the current Voight conversion from your photos versus whats on the Voight website but that may have changed over the years.

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PostPost by: tjb0274 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:32 am

rgh0 wrote:It does not look like the current Voight conversion from your photos versus whats on the Voight website but that may have changed over the years.


Yeah, I think you're right. There's also a crudely made release for a reverse lockout on the gear lever, whereas it looks like the Voights kit just uses a detent spring rather than a lockout.

The gearbox is the only jarring bit of the car so far - there's quite a bit of other recently done work on the car, and most of it seems to have been done carefully and well, but the gearbox installation does look rather amateurish.
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PostPost by: Panda » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:51 am

If you decide to revert to the original 4 speed, I have a very good complete unit which I rebuilt with new bearings and seals etc and am willing to sell. I'm in Sydney at Balgowlah Heights.
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PostPost by: tjb0274 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:16 am

Panda wrote:If you decide to revert to the original 4 speed, I have a very good complete unit which I rebuilt with new bearings and seals etc and am willing to sell. I'm in Sydney at Balgowlah Heights.
Alan P


Good to know, @Panda - thanks :)
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PostPost by: Foxie » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:09 am

That gearbox mount looks like it came out of a tank :o

Have two new bolt holes been drilled forward of the rear four ?

Is the standard gearbox flexible mount in there somewhere ?

Attached pics of Alan Voigts gearbox, 2003 version. (In reverse order !)

You can see the reverse detent "top hat" fitted on the top cover. Also the clutch line to the concentric slave annular cylinder entering through the bell housing.

The forward cranking on gear lever shown is incorrect.

The reverse detent has now been relocated to the upper left side of the tail housing. I had to modify the original type Spyder chassis, as it interfered with a diagonal. It was replaced with a flanged panel. You can also see the top cover now has a plain flat surface.
Attachments
p6300805a.jpg and
alanvoigtst9.jpg and
lotusford-4-speed-ampt9-5-speed.jpg and
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PostPost by: tjb0274 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:49 am

Thanks @foxie - interesting stuff!

It's hard to tell for sure, but the alloy tail section of my box looks similar to the Voigts one. Everything else looks different though - my lever seems to have a reverse lockout control on it, the cast iron casing is painted green instead of black, and I seem to have a different bell housing with a standard clutch yoke rather than the concentric yoke that Voigts use.

I will double check all of that next time I have the car up on the hoist, though.

The rear mount is a bit bizarre. It looks like trial and error - keep adding stuff until it works :-) If the location is correct I'm tempted to take some measurements and get something made up that's a bit neater and smaller.
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PostPost by: Chancer » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:06 pm

That was probably the next step for whoever was working on it before progress ground to a halt.
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PostPost by: pharriso » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:43 pm

This is my Voght's gearbox & rear mount, thankfully nothing like yours...
img_8350.jpg and


It looks like your mount raises the gearbox tail up 2-3"? Maybe to allow he exhaust to be higher?
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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:07 am

This differs from a Voights conversion in a few areas. As pointed out by others the gearbox mount at the tailhousing is very different. Also your fifth gear housing appears to be a standard item, not the special one that Voights makes. I posted a few comments and a shot of my Voights conversion on your other thread before seeing this new one. One minor comment to some of the other posts. The Voights conversion does not really have a reverse detent, the function is more of a stop to prevent the gear lever from going past the reverse plane. Without the stop the gear lever can go past the reverse plane and the selector dog can come completely out of engagement with all of the selector forks.
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PostPost by: tjb0274 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:21 am

CBUEB1771 wrote:This differs from a Voights conversion in a few areas. As pointed out by others the gearbox mount at the tailhousing is very different. Also your fifth gear housing appears to be a standard item, not the special one that Voights makes. I posted a few comments and a shot of my Voights conversion on your other thread before seeing this new one. One minor comment to some of the other posts. The Voights conversion does not really have a reverse detent, the function is more of a stop to prevent the gear lever from going past the reverse plane. Without the stop the gear lever can go past the reverse plane and the selector dog can come completely out of engagement with all of the selector forks.


Thanks Russ :-)

I saw your comment and pics on the other thread. Sounds like my box is not a Voigts conversion - maybe it's a one-off done by a PO, then. I found a couple of threads on here from years ago where someone with the handle worzel talked about some DIY conversion methods.

I guess it doesn't matter that much. My only real concern is if the quality of work inside the box matches what we see with the mount...

Is there any way to tell which variant of the T9 it is without pulling the box out? I'd be interested to know what the ratios are. I'm not sure if any Fords were sold new in Aus with T9s - I don't think so, though, so it's probably been imported from the UK.
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PostPost by: Foxie » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:43 pm

CBUEB1771 wrote: <Snip> One minor comment to some of the other posts. The Voights conversion does not really have a reverse detent, the function is more of a stop to prevent the gear lever from going past the reverse plane. Without the stop the gear lever can go past the reverse plane and the selector dog can come completely out of engagement with all of the selector forks.


I wouldn't quite agree with all the above. :) The selector locking plate rim does have arc limit stops, but it also has a ramp which lifts a plunger against an adjustable spring when going to the reverse position. I have in the past modified locking plates to try to improve the gearchange feel, see pics in link below. So there are possibly several variation on this system.

The latest version of Alan Voigts has the the reverse detent in the top left of the tail housing. I have cut a small opening in the tunnel fibreglass to adjust the spring tension to optimum. If it's too loose, you are as likely to get reverse as first, if it's too tight you won't get reverse as all.

See previous posts (Oct 2010) from Worzel and myself on this topic, includings pics: elan-mods-f31/speed-conversions-t21341.html
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PostPost by: tjb0274 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:19 pm

Interesting.

I wonder if my box could be the one that worzel was selling back in 2010? He did say in one of the posts that he wasn't including the rear mount.

Otherwise some enterprising soul here in Oz must have made similar mods on their own.
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