Lotus Elan

Pinion oil seal

PostPost by: alan.barker » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:59 pm

Well done Jon and i think i would do the same and leave the output shafts alone.
Don't take any risks
Alan
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PostPost by: MarkDa » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:34 pm

Jon
Buckland tells us that Spyder chassis needs D washers to clear larger tubes.
Yes, discretion is the better part of valour and if it ain't broke don't fix it.
I expect the bearings have been loctited in and eventually when you 'have to' do the job and have the bearings to hand you'll have to apply heat pretty forcefully to 'destroy' the 'glue' and release the bearings.
You will also need to pull evenly on the drive shaft so a steel plate drilled to suit if your slide hammer yoke won't fit.
(Buckland of course uses an old drive shaft spider which he just happened to have to hand!)
So a job to leave for the time being .
Mark
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:30 pm

When you decide later to remove the Diff Output Shafts you can make a sliding hammer with the old damaged Drive Shaft. The old Drive Shaft ears will bolt direct to the Diff Output Shaft ears. Drill a hole in a heavy bit of metal so it will slide on the old Drive Shaft. Put the Hub Nut on the old Drive Shaft and a big washer for the heavy bit of metal to slide/hit against.
There you go a home made sliding hammer :mrgreen:
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:14 am

..or just cut off , then drill and tap , the centre of the spider head the same thread as that on your existing slide hammer..

John :wink:
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:32 am

+1
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PostPost by: JonB » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:53 am

alan.barker wrote:When you decide later to remove the Diff Output Shafts you can make a sliding hammer with the old damaged Drive Shaft. The old Drive Shaft ears will bolt direct to the Diff Output Shaft ears. Drill a hole in a heavy bit of metal so it will slide on the old Drive Shaft. Put the Hub Nut on the old Drive Shaft and a big washer for the heavy bit of metal to slide/hit against.
There you go a home made sliding hammer :mrgreen:
Alan


Hmm, good idea.. but I think the outer drive shaft isn't really long enough to get a good whack with the sliding part. Plus, I do not have a drill that big.

I made a slide hammer out of a piece of threaded rod, nuts, washers, a length of steel pipe (for the slide bit) and some lead to add weight. I think that it wasn't heavy enough and that using chain to connect it to the shaft meant the shock wasn't getting transferred effectively, even when holding it in tension prior to each strike. This is all penny pinching on my part as I could just go and buy one (for example https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272959971153 ) but I will probably only use it once and I have already spent nigh on ?500 on tools and consumables (yes, I am tracking it along with the parts expenditure). I was quite shocked when I added that lot up.
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PostPost by: Chancer » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:19 am

rgh0 wrote:If ordering over the internet make sure you specify the rubber seals both sides of the bearing - i.e. in SKF terms this is 6206-2RZ other suppliers may use similar terms such 6206-2RS

Typically bearings come open, with metal shields ( metal shields in SKF terms is 2Z) or with rubber seals - you want the ones with the rubber seals.

Its a poor design by Lotus to have the diff output bearings exposed like they are with just the bearing rubber seal protecting the bearing from the dirt and water under a car. At least on the wheel hub they put a metal shield over the inner bearing and the hub provides some protection for the outer bearing

cheers
Rohan


2 RS Bearing with rubber seal on both sides. RS provides a better seal but more rolling friction than 2Z.
RS Bearing with rubber seal on one side, one side open.
2 Z / ZZ Bearing with a metal seal on both sides.
Z Bearing with a metal seal on one side, one side open.
E Reinforced Design
P2 Highest precision
K Bearing with taper bore

The seals are just about OK for retaining the bearing grease within but not really for resisting external contaminant ingress or hot diff o?l, the exact same bearings are used on my Maytag (American) commercial washer but they are protected by additional external Gaco type shaft seals, when these break down and allow the bearing seals to be exposed to water they in turn fail very quickly.
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PostPost by: Chancer » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:27 am

JonB wrote:
MarkDa wrote:A pair of SKF bearings c?10 delivered off eBay


Sure those are genuine? There is a lot of fakery about. Also, the sizes are quoted in metric. Will they fit properly onto a shaft machined to an Imperial size?

Example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222302435128 are SKF 30x62x16mm


The bearings used were a standard ISO-Metric 6200 series metric bearing, the shaft nominal diameter is 30mm and the bearing bore 62mm.

My commercial washing machine is very hard on bearings and there seems to be no difference in the longevity of supposed SKF/INA or the other main marques and cheaper no-name ones.

My first replacement set didn't last long but it turned out I had damaged the seperate shaft seal by fitting it backwards and running it before reversing it, so I bought a load of bearings as spares, turned out I did not need them.

I mentioned elsewhere here the pleasure in finding that a mistaken purchase is not lost and can be used elsewhere, but for this forum I would not have known that I now have spare Elan diff bearings :D
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:51 am

All you need now is an Elan to go with the bearings :lol: Do you think swmbo will buy that :roll:
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PostPost by: Chancer » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:05 pm

As Bob Marley might have said.

No SWMBO no cry!........................ :)
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PostPost by: MarkDa » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:27 pm

Jon
That's not a bad price for the slide hammer, the yoke is the same as most sets and having offered mine up I can confirm it doesn't do 120? nor small enough pcd.
I've used my slide hammer on quite a few cars (but not on my sprint!) over the years so if you buy one young enough you can get value!
I bought mine before the flood of far eastern kit on ebay made them as cheap as they are now, and it has been invaluable on some jobs.
Anyway you may get years more out of your seals so hang on in there and just keep an eye on weepage.
It may be heretical to say, but i wouldnt be surprised that unless you do extended high speed running in hot ambient conditions that the diff would run quite happily with oil up to the output shafts for ever and a day.
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PostPost by: Chancer » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:20 pm

They will, the temps go up massively though on the track, particularly a short twisty circuit and with an LSD. I've known 7's with the same IRS set up, English diff, alloy housing that needed a diff o?l cooler and pump, that said the CW&P's were failing before the seals.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:29 pm

Yes i got it wrong :oops:

here is the full SKF designation page 2RZ is a non contact seal 2RS is the contact seal - you want the 2RS contact seal.


http://www.skf.com/au/products/bearings ... index.html

"If you want to know the answer to something just post the wrong answer on the internet and someone will correct you !"

cheers
Rohan


Chancer wrote:
rgh0 wrote:If ordering over the internet make sure you specify the rubber seals both sides of the bearing - i.e. in SKF terms this is 6206-2RZ other suppliers may use similar terms such 6206-2RS

Typically bearings come open, with metal shields ( metal shields in SKF terms is 2Z) or with rubber seals - you want the ones with the rubber seals.

Its a poor design by Lotus to have the diff output bearings exposed like they are with just the bearing rubber seal protecting the bearing from the dirt and water under a car. At least on the wheel hub they put a metal shield over the inner bearing and the hub provides some protection for the outer bearing

cheers
Rohan


2 RS Bearing with rubber seal on both sides. RS provides a better seal but more rolling friction than 2Z.
RS Bearing with rubber seal on one side, one side open.
2 Z / ZZ Bearing with a metal seal on both sides.
Z Bearing with a metal seal on one side, one side open.
E Reinforced Design
P2 Highest precision
K Bearing with taper bore

The seals are just about OK for retaining the bearing grease within but not really for resisting external contaminant ingress or hot diff o?l, the exact same bearings are used on my Maytag (American) commercial washer but they are protected by additional external Gaco type shaft seals, when these break down and allow the bearing seals to be exposed to water they in turn fail very quickly.
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PostPost by: JonB » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:01 am

Re extended high speed running. I can see that the diff works harder on the twisties but what about a road trip to the South of France (for example)?

I think I'm getting too worried about this! :?
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PostPost by: MarkDa » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:13 am

Yes - just refit and forget.
Something else more urgent will probably present itself!
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