Lotus Elan

PLUS 2 5 SPEED BOX

PostPost by: p.faurie » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:38 pm

HI ALL BEING WATCHING ON THE FORUM FOR QUITE A WHILE,AND HAVENT NEEDED TO ASK A QUESTION UNTILL NOW.SO HERE GOES.CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT IF ANY MODS I NEED TO DO TO A PLUS 2S 4SPEED TO ENABLE ME TO FIT THE LOTUS 5 SPEED BOX. IE THE TRANSMISSON TUNNEL HOLE [DOES IT NEED MODIFYING]AND CENTRE CONSOL TRIM ,CAN I USE THE ORIGINAL 4 SPEED ONE.I KNOW ABOUT THE MECHANICAL DIFFERANCES.BUT NOT THE BODY MODS IF ANY.CAN SOMEONE CONFIRM
REGARDS PHIL
p.faurie
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 95
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Location: Kent uk

PostPost by: Craig Elliott » Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:20 am

I believe the +2 Lotus 5 speed gearbox will bolt straight onto the back of the engine and I don't think the chassis is any different, however, as you're probably aware the things that are different include:

The gearbox mounting (this may be the same as the 4 speed but turned around I'm not certain)
the prop shaft (i.e. the drive shaft going from the engine to the differential)
the speedometer drive
the gear lever (and gear lever knob)
the gear lever gaiters (i.e. the rubber surround from the top of the transmission tunnel to the gear lever - there should be an inner and outer and the outer is certainly different to the 4 speed. These are VERY difficult to find)

I don't think the gear lever comes out of the transmission tunnel in a significantly different place to the 4 speed but I do think that the transmission tunnel cover is slightly different - not sure how much or whether this is critical. It may just be that the hole in it needs to be modified to suit the different gaiter. I don't think the standard 4 speed gaiter will fit on the 5 speed gear lever and as mentioned above the 5 speed gaiter is very hard to find. I've managed to repair mine with self amalgamating rubber tape and evo-stick (IIRC) but if anyone knows the original source of these gaiters it would be great to know...

Craig
User avatar
Craig Elliott
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 322
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Location: Lincolnshire, UK

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:29 pm

Phil,

There are a number of things you should know about fitting a 5 speed box ILO a 4 speed box. I am in the final stage of fitting one to my Sprint.

* You need a 5 speed clutch pressure plate, 8.5? clutch plate and release bearing.
* Perhaps a longer speedo cable ? although my 4 speed cable fitted perfectly.
* The gear lever position is 25mm (1?) further rearward and a modification designed by Victor Hollnagel is recommended.
Elan 5 Speed Rebuild.pdf
(1.14 MiB) Downloaded 537 times

* The exhaust ?Y? piece will not fit as it fouls the gearbox because it is has a bigger profile than the 4 speed. A new one that goes around the gearbox will need to be made. I may be able to help you there.
* You will probably have to make adjustments to the exhaust centre pipe to mate-up with the ?Y? piece.
* The gearbox mount position is 96mm further rearward and of the correct height ? so you don?t need spacers. This position can be addressed by modifying the 4 speed bracket. You will need to remove the support pieces, reverse it and drill new holes to suit the chassis.
Modified Bracket.JPG and

* You need a specific 5 speed propshaft with four special propshaft bolts. (same as the diff bolts).
* The 5 speed box is 120mm shorter in length than the 4 speed and has a flange connection to the propshaft. You will need to check if the access hole in the +2 chassis/body is in the correct position to locate and assemble the gearbox/propshaft flanges. This was a problem with the Sprint so I had to do the John Clegg trick and cut a hole in the bottom of the chassis box section in order to fit the special propshaft bolts.
elan-f14/lotus-speed-gearbox-t19761.html

I'm sure there must be some other things that I have not thought of off the top of my head, and if I do, will let you now.

You don't say where you're located, so other advice may not be suitable.
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
User avatar
bcmc33
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1847
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Aldridge, West Midlands, UK.

PostPost by: p.faurie » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:34 pm

thanks craig and brian for your replys,i have a donor car for the mechanical parts my main concern was having to modify the body shell around the transmission tunnel where the gear stick is,so i should be ok if i follow your advice.thanks again chaps regards phil
p.faurie
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 95
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Location: Kent uk

PostPost by: Foxie » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:07 pm

I fitted a Lotus 5-speed to my Plus 2 in 2003, before fitting an Alan Voigts T9 conversion.

Whilst I concur with many of the recommendations in previous posts, there were a few item mentioned which were not a problem for me.

The Spyder chassis, which has less clearance than the original, did not need to be modified in any way, the T9 required some minor grinding.

The exhaust did not have to be modified.

The speedo cable neither.

There was no problem either with the gear lever position.

Enjoy the 5-speed :mrgreen:
68 Elan +2, 70 Elan +2s
User avatar
Foxie
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 955
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Wexford, Ireland

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:45 pm

Sean Murray wrote:
The Spyder chassis, which has less clearance than the original, did not need to be modified in any way.

The exhaust did not have to be modified.

Sean,

I'm interested in these two comments:

How did you connect the gearbox & propshaft flanges, or get to the U/J for greasing?

How did the "Y" piece exit not foul the side of the 5 speed gearbox?

Phil,

What does the "Y" piece look like on the donor car in comparison to the 4 speed?
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
User avatar
bcmc33
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1847
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Aldridge, West Midlands, UK.

PostPost by: Foxie » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:59 am

bcmc33 wrote: Sean,

I'm interested in these two comments:

How did you connect the gearbox & propshaft flanges, or get to the U/J for greasing?

How did the "Y" piece exit not foul the side of the 5 speed gearbox?

It was seven years ago, but I remember it was a right PITA, one flat at a time on the nuts.

It just didn't ! I've just checked the rim of the Lotus 5 speed bell-housing, and I see I did not have to grind out any clearance.

With the T9, I had to grind out the 1/4" set-screw lug for the dust cover on the exhaust side.
68 Elan +2, 70 Elan +2s
User avatar
Foxie
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 955
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Wexford, Ireland

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:43 am

Sean Murray wrote:
bcmc33 wrote: Sean,

I'm interested in these two comments:

How did you connect the gearbox & propshaft flanges, or get to the U/J for greasing?

How did the "Y" piece exit not foul the side of the 5 speed gearbox?

It just didn't ! I've just checked the rim of the Lotus 5 speed bell-housing, and I see I did not have to grind out any clearance.

Sean,

The bell housing is not really any different from the 4 speed. The foul condition that a friend and I encountered was that the route of the "Y" piece outlet is blocked by the deeper, longer and square sided 5 speed casing. The normal 4 speed box has a rounded bottom and the route of the "Y" piece outlet fits neatly in the space created by the rounded form. The square side of the 5 speed box removes that neat space.
There are two choices of action; make the "Y" piece to go under the box or to go around the box. We have chosen to go around the box.
I just wanted to know what you did to overcome this condition. I am really interested to know what was done on Phil's donor car that would have had the factory solution.
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
User avatar
bcmc33
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1847
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Aldridge, West Midlands, UK.

PostPost by: p.faurie » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:26 pm

HI BRIAN .IVE NOT REMOVED THE G/BOX ETC FROM THE DONOR CAR YET,I DID NOT THINK THERE WOULD BE ANY MECHANICAL DIFFERANCE BETWEEN THE TWO CARS IE EXHAUST MANIFOLD, Y PIECE,AS AND WHEN I DO THE CHANGE I WILL REPORT THE PROBLEMS I ENCOUNTERD IN RESPONCE TO PRIVIOUS POSTS IM IN KENT [ENGERLAND] UNLESS WE DONT BEAT SLOVACIA THEN IM FRENCH?.REGARDS PHIL
p.faurie
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 95
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Location: Kent uk

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:54 pm

p.faurie wrote:IVE NOT REMOVED THE G/BOX ETC FROM THE DONOR CAR YET,I DID NOT THINK THERE WOULD BE ANY MECHANICAL DIFFERANCE BETWEEN THE TWO CARS IE EXHAUST MANIFOLD, Y PIECE,AS AND WHEN I DO THE CHANGE I WILL REPORT THE PROBLEMS I ENCOUNTERD

Phil,

Maybe the 5 speed exhaust manifold is different to the 4 speed. The standard 4 speed 4/2/1 system comes out at the bottom at a 10? angle parallel to the chassis and points directly at the gearbox.
I would be interested to see some pictures from the underside of the car.
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
User avatar
bcmc33
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1847
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Aldridge, West Midlands, UK.

PostPost by: AussieJohn » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:22 pm

Maybe the exhaust manifolds on a +2 4 speed and a "baby" are different or a change in design during production.
AussieJohn
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 447
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Yorkshire

PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:40 am

I fitted many years ago a "standard" exhaust header system from a local Australian supplier. While it was tight around the ribbed square section of the gear box it did fit. I suspect it will depend on the specific manufacturing tolerances of any replacement system you buy these days as to whether it will fit a 5 speed without some tweaking.

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7487
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:13 am

"tweaking",that's what I had to do to my stainless system to help them clear the gearbox,a long length of pipe and a oxy/propane torch and bend or sett to suit...

John :wink:
User avatar
john.p.clegg
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5682
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

PostPost by: Foxie » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:24 am

bcmc33 wrote: Sean,

The bell housing is not really any different from the 4 speed. The foul condition that a friend and I encountered was that the route of the "Y" piece outlet is blocked by the deeper, longer and square sided 5 speed casing. The normal 4 speed box has a rounded bottom and the route of the "Y" piece outlet fits neatly in the space created by the rounded form. The square side of the 5 speed box removes that neat space.
There are two choices of action; make the "Y" piece to go under the box or to go around the box. We have chosen to go around the box.
I just wanted to know what you did to overcome this condition.


IIRC, there was a minor intereference with the original 4 speed exhaust assembly on the 5-speed. I just assembled another Y-piece and centre pipe, using the same manifold. I always braze the Y-piece /centre tube, and the centre tube/rear box joints, with the complete exhaust assembly mounted on the car. There were no particular problems.
68 Elan +2, 70 Elan +2s
User avatar
Foxie
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 955
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Wexford, Ireland

PostPost by: alexblack13 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:32 pm

Yes.. Tweaking!! I know this well. I had a lot of that to do with the new stainless system I fitted to the Sprint. A lot of 'tweaking' needed there.. :evil:

Got it though :wink:

Alex... 8)
Alex Black.
Now Sprintless!!
User avatar
alexblack13
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2357
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: Fife Scotland

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests