Lotus Elan

6 speed gearbox for the Elan

PostPost by: neilsjuke » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:39 am

Just put a Lotus nose badge on a grey inport MX5 light bulb and a can of old engine oil under the bonnet with a drip hole .
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:57 am

Elanintheforest wrote:I agree, Gordon, and I still haven't found a nicer box to use on any moderns. I guess that having an overdrive top is useful in dropping the revs, but it doesn't allow a faster top speed to be maintained any better...the wind noise from the doors takes over from the ngine noise at 100mph plus.

Mark


I still find the idea of a fully sorted 6 speed G/box that will slot straight in an interesting thought.
Maybe 4th being a straight 1:1 & the upper 2 nice overdrives.
But getting back to your point. I very much agree with your oppinion, the original G/box set a benchmark.
I've driven it in a Mk1 Lotus Cortina, Mk14 Eite (yes I have :roll: ) & although I Zetec'd my S4 the original G/box is sat in there enjoying life & treating me quick, snicky changes.
Good? Iconic I'd say.

Did someone say something about the Honda S2000 engine?
Now there's an idea; a little beaut', all of those rev's hmmmmm :lol:
Just a minor rebuild with cork gaskets, practically original :wink:

Cheers
John
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PostPost by: steveww » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:20 am

Having just completed a fairly long trip in modern traffic with my Elan. IMHO an under driven 1st and over driven 6th would be divine! When crawling in stop start traffic the original gearbox 1st is too high, giving about 15mph by the time the clutch is fully out, a lower gear that would allow one to trickle along would be nice. Once clear of the traffic and trying to keep up with my wife in her modern required pulling 4500 - 5000 rpm I am sure more relaxed driving would be available with an over driven 6th. Sure it would not reduce wind noise though :)

I will let you know how the prototype drives in August; hopefully.
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:12 pm

steveww wrote:Having just completed a fairly long trip in modern traffic with my Elan. IMHO an under driven 1st and over driven 6th would be divine! When crawling in stop start traffic the original gearbox 1st is too high, giving about 15mph by the time the clutch is fully out, a lower gear that would allow one to trickle along would be nice. Once clear of the traffic and trying to keep up with my wife in her modern required pulling 4500 - 5000 rpm I am sure more relaxed driving would be available with an over driven 6th. Sure it would not reduce wind noise though :)

I will let you know how the prototype drives in August; hopefully.


Maybe the mazda 6 speed automatic would be a good swap if you drive in those conditions a lot. I was thinking of the C4 automatic 3 speed that came bolted up to the 2 liter Pinto (the car) in the U.S., I picked up one from a friend and had it sitting in a stock chassis but needed a few mods to the chassis for it to slide back far enough. I had just the bare block with motor mounts and gearbox installed and was about an inch away from bolting up the motor mounts so it was close to fitting with out any mods. Mike Ostrov has swapped the C4 automatic into one of his Elite's along with the elan chassis. I have driven it and its an interesting ride, we probably covered 30 or so miles in most traffic conditions and it fit right in with my lazy left leg. Its seemed a bit heavy, but it had a 1700 cc stromberg twin cam to power it so it was still entertaining.
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C4 auto behind a pinto, gearbox is a bit heavy at 105 pounds with some fluid and the torque converter is another 25 pounds again with some fluid. The installed weight of the C4 behind a twincam would add 70 to 80 additional pounds over an all iron elan box
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PostPost by: pauljones » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:40 pm

perhaps im missing the point,but i had an is200 sport that had a 6speed box,so why not install the engine and box together.it will have no issues that have been talked about ref mating with bell housings,clutches ect as it comes complete. only problem is its a straight 6.

second option was the mx5 6 speed box,well that comes atatched to a 2ltr 4 pot,oh and very closely related to the ford sigma(US),duratec that is in current fords.

both engines have circa 155 to 165bhp.

surely these offer a better solution than a mix and match.

not forgeting BMW Merc or Audi ect north/south installs.
Kick the tyres and light them fires...!!!!!!!
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:22 pm

Think I'll get Some beer & Crisps in for later :lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostPost by: steveww » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:43 pm

Beer & Crips yum :lol:

The main design brief was to improve the Elan for today's traffic conditions by fitting a more suitable gearbox with minimal other alterations.

There is nothing wrong with the Lotus twinc so why swap that out as well? As for fitting an auto box - yuk!
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PostPost by: tdafforn » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:58 pm

what I dream of is one of them new "flappy paddle" gearboxs in my +2 :D


I'll get my hat.....

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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:08 pm

steveww wrote:Beer & Crips yum :lol:

The main design brief was to improve the Elan for today's traffic conditions by fitting a more suitable gearbox with minimal other alterations.

There is nothing wrong with the Lotus twinc so why swap that out as well? As for fitting an auto box - yuk!


not yuc, just easy...
Lighter too.

Gary
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21 day of rain - boy them legs is white
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:01 pm

garyeanderson wrote:
steveww wrote:Beer & Crips yum :lol:

The main design brief was to improve the Elan for today's traffic conditions by fitting a more suitable gearbox with minimal other alterations.

There is nothing wrong with the Lotus twinc so why swap that out as well? As for fitting an auto box - yuk!


not yuc, just easy...
Lighter too.

Gary


Phew, cor blimey Gary!
Well I suppose CABC would approve of the weight you've saved there :wink:
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:30 pm

D.J.Pelly wrote:
garyeanderson wrote:
steveww wrote:Beer & Crips yum :lol:

The main design brief was to improve the Elan for today's traffic conditions by fitting a more suitable gearbox with minimal other alterations.

There is nothing wrong with the Lotus twinc so why swap that out as well? As for fitting an auto box - yuk!


not yuc, just easy...
Lighter too.

Gary


Phew, cor blimey Gary!
Well I suppose CABC would approve of the weight you've saved there :wink:


Hi John

It gets better, after the bills had been settled after the accident I had a net surplus of about $2000. I went and looked at a Europa but couldn't work the clutch, so, scratch them off the list. I saw a S2 Elan under a tarp at the same place and tried the seat (and clutch) out and made an offer. the seller refused and I went looking else where. I found an S2 with a carb fire and bought it for $1550. I've had it for 34 years.

Gary
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:37 pm

34 years is a long time. I suppose you're slowly getting used to the left foot modification although in this case I would definately go along with the original equipment argument. :oops:
A few years ago I bought a Europa & started doing a "Banks" thing to it. Only partly done, the car arrived here in Germany & the first drive "around the Block" told me that the car was not for me.
Offset pedals & offset Steering wheel, not nice. :|

Being a bit OTT here maybe but did the Peter Cook & Dudley Moore "Tarzan sketch" (a massive hit in GB) ever cross
the Atlantic? :wink:

Cheers
John
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PostPost by: msd1107 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:38 pm

My daily driver had 165-13, 2.51 1st, 3.55 diff, and rotoflexes - as high geared as an Elan can get. Part of the daily commute was on socals delightful mobile parking lots. I found the TC would pull away in 1st from less than 1,000 rpm, a walking pace. During some of this time, I was car pooling, so had the added weight of a passenger. Starting up from rest involved rolling the clutch foot over to engage the clutch while keeping rpms slightly above idle. The only drama was going into LA where I would get caught at an uphill stop light. My girl friend would wonder why I got tense, but there was never any real drama.

Actually, I find driving a low geared 1st speed to be jerkier than the high 1st gear on the Elan. I don't have very good coordination, so managing the more abrupt engage/dis-engage cycle and the throttle sensitivity of the low geared car makes for a more tiring commute.

Just my opinion and experience. Somebody is sure to have a different way of looking at this.

David
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PostPost by: msd1107 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:17 pm

John said
I still find the idea of a fully sorted 6 speed G/box that will slot straight in an interesting thought.
Maybe 4th being a straight 1:1 & the upper 2 nice overdrives.

This would be ideal with the differential ratios avaiable to us, 3.9, 3.77, 3.55.

However, I doubt we can re-engineer the shift pattern of a 6-speed to make 4th direct, even if we cut an optimum new gearset. And I doubt that is going to happen.

Gary has suggested a higher differential ratio, and this may be the way to go. Ignoring for the moment that these are wide ratio transmissions (3.8 1st gear is not CR!) and that the ratio gaps have some interesting blips, going to a higher differential would help the situation. Those who are happy with the .843 6th and 3.76 1st can swap in the gearbox as is. There have been posts in the past about what a desirable differential ratio might be. Different permutations of the pinion and ring gears could produce ratios of 3.5, 3.455, 3.444, 3.4, 3.364, 3.3, 3.273, 3.2, 3.182, 3.1, 3.091, 3.0, 2.909, and 2.818. With a 155-13 tire and 6,500 rpm, this would give 122-152 mph in 1:1 5th, with OD 6th available for cruising.

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PostPost by: paddy » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:41 pm

Was the leg cheaper if you bought it as a kit?

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