Voight gearbox oil change

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Yes Brian,

it seems like we've shared some similar experiences.
Contrary to yours however, I have found thar Oil suppliers were prepared to bend over backwards to supply original fill oil & to get their product released for inclusion in the service manual.

Also, yes, as I mentioned "Dont blame the Designer" those effin plugs go in, if they're needed or not, be it the demand of the Customer or the Dealership & the assembly plant suffer continuously because they're there
The Designer's lot is not a happy one
And the Liaison Engineer gets a constant battering for the damned things.Who said you can't start a sentence with And

Ref. Copper Seals, delivered hardness values can vary, thus requiring tightening value adjustments. They won't seal scratches in adjacent components & are extremely sensitive to spindle speeds.
IMHO an archaic design feature that still, due to costs, finds it's way into modern cars.


Donington: Yup; Ticket bought, B&B reserved & Ferry crossing reserved. I'll be there; God willing

Oh, & German White Spargel (Asparagus), magic innit!!
Why isn't it as popular in GB?
In May, when it's in season, I live on it. New potatoes, a bit of Ham & Hollandaise Sauce hmmmm; not far off now

Big mistake Brian; criticizing ones superiors decisions in Germany is verboten. A downhill career is a certainty once caught.
Ask me about it

Cheers
John

[patrics]

Hi

I always thought that Ford were so desperate to try an improve the change on the Sierra that in the end they used ATF oil.

Regards
Steve

[bcmc33]

Thanks for reminding me Steve, I had meant to mention in my note to John that other transmissions designed and developed for two other German auto companies (well one really) that had the cheapest ATF we could find. There were major differences in the test duty cycle compared to that demanded by the Bavarians, in that the duty cycle appeared to be centered on surviving five laps of the N?rburgring in a time not greater than the accompanying 911.

BTW they are 'sealed-for-life' with drain and fill plugs.

[Tonyw]

Folk's,
Many many years ago when I earned a meagre living as a mechanic in Nissa dealership we were advised to us ATF in manual gearboxes by the factory to minimise second gear syncho problems especially when cold. It was remarkable how much smoother the gear changes were I never stayed long enough to find out if there were any premature gearbox failures.

Tony W

[hatman]

I've now followed the many recommendations on here by re-filling mine with Redline MTL and my first impression was how thin and 'watery' it is when compared with normal EP80 - just like ATF in fact, including the colour and, to an extent, the smell (it certainly doesn't have the stink of the normal EP stuff about it). The comments above about Ford and Nissan's decisions to recommend the use of ATF in some of their manual boxes suggest that my heretical thought that Redline MTL may be nothing more exotic than re-packaged ATF might not be far wide of the mark after all!

Initial driving impressions were that the gears clicked into place a bit more easily (psychological expectation-fulfilment?) and that the internals felt, via the gearlever, less cushioned than when operating in EP80 - more apparent metal-to-metal contact in effect. It will doubtless feel a lot different on very cold start up as the synchros were always a bit slow to do their thing when the old EP goop was at its thickest. Anyone have any info/experience of gearbox longevity when using this stuff?

[worzel]

Hi Hatman

The T9 in my car is bog standard- except for lever location and I've always used Ford's own recommended oil in it.

The 1st to 2nd change is not a problem on my box- even when cold. The only thing I've noticed is that the box seems to "prefer" (apologies here) to be pushed slightly leftwards (mine doesn't have any internal springing across the gate).

I'm told that if the 5th gear cluster is machined to reduce its thickness by about 6mm or so it reduces the flywheel effect caused by the larger of the gears and improves the change in the intermediates quite a bit. Since I have to get at the box anyway to replace a bearing I might try this mod and see what the effects are.

John

[rgh0]

The Redline is a very different oil to an ATF, it has a very level viscosity index over a wide temperature range unlike most other oils so it does not thin out as it heats up. This means it can be formuklated to work better producing easier changes at low temperatures when cold and also to lubricate better when hot.

There is no smell compared to the normal EP oils as it has a low level of sulphur based anti scuff compounds that produce the smell, this also makes it less corrossive to brass components such as syncro rings.

I have used it for around 10 years of hard racing in my Elan and also for road use in my Esprit and Plus 2Ss 130/5 with no issues and greatly improved gear changes in all cars. I have used it for 200,000 km's in my Toyota tow vehicle with no issues either. I guess I am overall confident it does the job. There is a lot of good technical data on the Redline web site which is worth browsing to understand how it has been developed and why it works likes it does.

cheers
Rohan

[hatman]

Thanks Rohan - I shall now sleep easy in my bed (and have a look at the Redline website).

John - slightly crossed wires perhaps but my car has the boggo four speeder, not the five speed exotica like yours.

[JJDraper]

Out of my depth here... is this Redline stuff any good for the diff? Or are the shearing stresses too much?

Jeremy

[hatman]

The stuff you need, apparently, is Redline 75W90 rather than their MTL. Seems also to accord with the Elan's factory recommendation of EP90 for the diff rather than the EP80 which the box takes.

[tower of strength]

The correct oil to use in the T9 five speed was 75w90 semi synthetic, its freely available at any motor factor in various brands, the Ford quick fix for notchy early sierra T9s was to drain the oil and refill with ATF, this after all is designed to be used in a high pressure pump (auto box). A ford tech that I employed used to drill and tap the gear box as the old oil drained out, flushing out additional swarf with a couple of litres of atf, the reason this method was used was to increase the revenue from warranty work, Ford paid the dealers book hours to remove the gearbox, drain and refit it but at a much lower rate than the dealers workshop normally charges for retail.I believe book time was around 2 hours, the drill method took around 15mins!!
On a personal note, I found that when hot the synchros could easily be beaten on a quick change in an old gearbox with atf, 75w90 seemed to cure this with no discernable increase in shift effort... I had plenty of 4 and 6 pot capris in my feckless youth Mark

[CBUEB1771]

I was just browsing a large collection of PDF documents that Gary Anderson has collected. Among them is a magazine article from October 2003 which covers rebuilding the T9 gearbox. Unfortunately I can't determine the name of the publication but it is clearly English and the author is Kim Henson. The article is largely derived from an interview with Brian Hill of BGH Geartech. Toward the end of the article is a discussion of lubricants. Brian Hill recommends the Ford semi-synthetic (Ford Part No. A83SX 2 c 175-AA), Red Line 75W90 and Comma Semi Synthetic Gear Oil. I can't vouch for the Ford part number, I am simply reciting what is in the article. Regarding the drain plug I know that Quaife make an alloy maincase for the T9. I've looked at photos of this on both the Quaife and Burton Power websites. I can't tell if Quaife add a drain fitting or not. Does anyone know the answer to this?

[bill308]

Russ,

The Quaife alloy box does not have a drain plug.

Iv've asked John Esposito to fit one to the quaife box he's building up for me. This should be quite straight forward as there is a good location for it.

Bill

[CBUEB1771]

Iv've asked John Esposito to fit one to the quaife box he's building up for me. This should be quite straight forward as there is a good location for it.

Bill,
Thanks for your feedback. Both the standard Ford and Quaife alloy boxes appear to have a boss at the bottom of the main case toward the front where a drain fitting could be added.

[bill308]

Russ,

As I recall, there is a casting feature, resembling a verticle cylinder on the bottom of the case. I believe the drain will be fitted to the bottom of this feature. The plan is to use a tapered pipe thread. I requested a stainless plug with an external hex head.

Bill