Lotus Elan

5 speeds some more

PostPost by: MintSprint » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:59 pm

cabc26b wrote:Could it be that the instalation in a seven clone amplifies the noise ? I have run hewlands ( in midengine config only) and have a quaife dog box in one of my cars now. I will tell you , in my car ( with a hardtop) the gear noise is not in the forefront. And in a mid egdine I did not notice the noise above that of the engine.


Yes, I've driven single seaters with the same box as the Westfield (Hewland LD200) and not been particularly aware of the noise, but then it's hung out back in the open air. I've also driven steel saloons with straight cut gears where gear noise hasn't been so intrusive (though still noticeable). In both cases, I was wearing a crash helmet, though, so of course there's an inch of polystyrene foam clamped firmly over each ear!

I am sure that part of the issue on the Westfield is that the carbon monocoque provides a very good sound path and that the box is sitting right under your left elbow, but lets be honest, Elan bodies are are not known for their sound reducing qualities either. In a coupe, or a DHC with the hood up, I really wouldn't want to share a cockpit with a set of Hewland gears, separated only by oil-drum thick sheet steel and a fibreglass sounding board for a floor...

In any event, the Hewland's other characteristics alone mean that it is pretty much unsuitable as a road box - even the big 'clunk' every time you select first from standstill quickly becomes wearing when you are in town traffic and the gearing is no improvement over the Elan box for high speed cruising.
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PostPost by: MintSprint » Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:14 pm

SADLOTUS wrote:There again, wonder if anyone has ever asked Quaife to make up a nice tall overdrive top Type 9 for road use?

I'm guessing they'd be pretty reluctant if someone did. Even their own website politely makes it clear that customers seeking road car boxes would probably be better taking their business elsewhere: http://www.hewland.com/svga/faq_answer_4.htm

I can only say that unless you've driven a Hewland dog box on the road, be very wary of recommending them for road use.

It's always easy to spend someone elses money for them ! :wink:
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PostPost by: msd1107 » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:11 pm

RE: SADLOTUS

Quaife (SPC) makes a helical synchromesh 5sp OD T9. From what I can tell, this was designed around a 2.20 1st gear and .87 5th. They have optional 1st gears of 2.39 and 2.745, an optional 2nd gear, and an optional 5th.

The ratio staging with the 2.39 1st is good, but it is rather dodgy for every day use on the street, being mainly for rally use. It seems to be more popular for Seven type cars.

Of course, you still have the usual interface issues with the output shaft, bell housing, speedometer calibration, and shift lever positioning. The input shaft is supposed to be TC compatible (at least the SPC version is supposed to be).

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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:55 pm

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PostPost by: kmoist » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:25 pm

garyeanderson wrote:Just be happy that there is a 3.54 CW & P available. This will give you about 4% drop over the 3.77 and 10% over the 3.9, the rest of the options in the U.S. are rather expensive dreams. The Alfa box is one of the few that I have seen that will work reasonably well. If you want some sporting ratios for your Elan (not the Plus2) then you are going to have to pay dearly to get the revs down at 80mph with a 5 speed.

Gary

earplugs are a cheap alternative


Gary, what are the details of the Alfa box? What models can be used and what modifications are necessary to mount/adapt to the Elan? thanks
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:39 pm

Hi Ken

This 5 speed deal isn't mine, Cranny and NHhiker have more experiance. I'm a 4 speed type of person, sometimes it to hard to count to 5.

Gary

p.s. hows the Coupe coming along?
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PostPost by: TomR » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:49 pm

As before, I'm still an advocate of the T5 transmission in elans - it takes some work/cost to get the bellhousing and box right especially since big buck hot rod builders like the short tailhousing, but you get an aluminum case 75 lb unit with great reliability. My ratios are 2.95/1.94/1.37/1.0/0.725. The frame needs virtually no work except to fit up a speedo - that requires a mod to the frame box on the drivers side or a switch to a Smiths Cobra-style electronic speedo. The bellhousing is from a 4cyl Mustang and is readily available. This fits all the engine mount points except the top pair which require two small extensions to be welded to the BH

I'll eventually post some pictures as Gary asked as I build the car up. I have learned that if you fit it up to a TTR frame you need some mods not required for the standard frame. Happy to share details or even drawings I made up for Tony.

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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Hi Tom

Is this the T5 that comes out of the S10, and then you get a set of gears out of the Mustang or just the oposite, S10 shifter and tailhousing on a Mustang box?

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PostPost by: DJThom » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:46 am

I know it has been brougth up in other threads, but there is an Isuzu 5-spd that was used in their 2WD prickups, the Impluse and the early RWD i-mark that looks pretty good, is light, durable and doesn't require that many modifications. I'm not an expert on it, but the stats look good.

I would have gone that route had I not come accross an Alfa box
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PostPost by: TomR » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:51 am

I used a Mustang NWC box and the S10 tailhousing - you could use a S10 box but the ratios are poor. Combine with a slightly modified bellhousing for a T5 4cyl Ford application (SVO mustang, TBird), an 8.5" clutch from same, and a concentric throwout bearing cylinder (several available for T5, I used McLeod). Shifter fits with just a little trimming around the edges and a simply modified T5 mount fits well.

The speedo is the tough problem. You now have a Ford mainshaft and a Chevy speedo takeoff. You can weld a Chevy speedo gear clip to the mainshaft easily since you have it apart to install the tailhousing. The tranny now fits fine but the speedo connection is pointing directly into the framebox by the left seat bottom. A small hole in the frame (really an extension of one of the existing punched holes) clears the speedo fitting and allows fitting an electronic transducer, but making room to run a cable requires more extensive modification of the frame. The best shifter to use is a shortened Camaro.

I"ll post pictures eventually - the car is a far taken apart as possible and the body hanging from the ceiling (thank you Racor Heavy-Lift!) so there will be plenty of assembly to document.

Gary, we'll have to meet sometime. I'm in Vernon CT and my mother-in-law is in Norwood MA.

Tom
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:21 am

This may be the Isuzu one, the owner says its out of an 1989 pickup.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-ISU ... dZViewItem
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:28 am

TomR wrote:I
Gary, we'll have to meet sometime. I'm in Vernon CT and my mother-in-law is in Norwood MA.

Tom


Hi Tom

Norwood is about a half hour north of me (well you know the local traffic, it can take a little longer), stop by if you get some time.
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PostPost by: johnc » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:00 am

garyeanderson wrote:

This may be the Isuzu one, the owner says its out of an 1989 pickup.


The ebay seller was even kind enough to provide the distance from to shift lever to the front of the bell housing -- 7 fence lengths.

I am quite confident this is the Isuzu transmission Ray Edwards used (or is using) for his 5-speed conversion. See:


http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9606
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PostPost by: johnc » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:44 am

TomR wrote:
Shifter fits with just a little trimming around the edges


How much is the shifter offset relative to the stock elan shift lever? Does the center console cover need to be modified? Someone estimated a while back the offset would be approximately 3/4".

Also what is the depth (front to back dimension) of the T5 4cyl Ford bellhousing?

BTW, my recollect is the Isuzu tranny conversion required an electronic speedo conversion (e.g. hall effect pickup and magnet on the drive shaft).
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:11 am

Hi John
The bell length is 6.7 inches on the Elan bell housing, theres more info in these links

Tom Robards wrote the following with info from Greg Zelazek

http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4052

this came up in the search too

http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2326

all of this 5 speed stuff is old as dirt, maybe someone shoud write a book..

Gary

So what are you going to do with the crappy Isuzu ratios?
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