Clutch Locked

[Galwaylotus]

Folks,

I started my Elan today for the first time in a few months. Engine runs ok - but- the clutch is jammed. I needed to get it on ramps to repair an exhaust leak and couldn't get it into gear with the engine running. I shut it down, put it into reverse and backed onto the ramps. Now I can't get it out of gear! It is on a slope. Any suggestions?

[nmauduit]

can you jack the rear up (with suitable wheel locks, commensurate to the slope) to take the load off the gear, in hope it may help disengage ?

[Galwaylotus]

Thanks. That was going to be my next move. It will be a bit awkward but may be the best solution. I may try rocking it first while pushing on the gear lever. There are a couple of wheel chocks in front of the rear wheels so it won't get away from me!

[Elanconvert]

I would suspect that the friction plate has stuck to the flywheel.......happens sometimes when a car is left standing.........can be caused by slight oil leak which softens the friction material turning it into excellent glue.................several methods of freeing it discussed on here quite recently...
but if you're really unlucky [like me once] the friction material separates and it's replacement time........

fred

[oldchieft]

See this thread, mostly answered.

lotus-gearbox-f37/clutch-won-disengage-t36220.html#p248142

Jon the Chief

[theelanman]

Mine has done this a few times......
Put a ciople of heat cycles.through it so it's hot........
I've then started it in gear on the starter motor and got the car to about 20mph then did an emergency stop......pop......clutch free......

[Wickey]

All good advice..............but prevention is always better than cure..........when storing up jam a piece of wood keeping the clutch pedal down or go out and check it every week if you are at home

[Galwaylotus]

Well, I got the hole in the exhaust patched then with my back braced against the door opening and my hand on the gear shift I rocked the car back and forth until it popped out of reverse. I started the engine and warmed it up but didn't have time to get it down on a flat surface and try to break the clutch free. If the weather cooperates I hope to do that tomorrow. The distance to our housing estate entrance is not great so if it doesn't free I'll have to shut it off to stop and then start again in gear. I need a quiet time on the main road to do that.

[Wickey]

If in confined spaces or difficulty in getting a good run off with the car on a road then leave the clutch pedal down overnight by trapping a piece of wood against the side sill. In the morning remove the wood and in neutral start the car up and get the engine warmed up. Remove the spark plugs (not just the leads)....obviously they will be hot. Then put the car in 4th gear with handbrake ON...... one foot firmly on brake pedal and other foot must be depressing the clutch pedal at all times.....then crank the car on the ignition. Make sure though you do have free space at the front but the car should not lurch forward if the brakes are good.

[oldchieft]

If in confined spaces or difficulty in getting a good run off with the car on a road then leave the clutch pedal down overnight by trapping a piece of wood against the side sill. In the morning remove the wood and in neutral start the car up and get the engine warmed up. Remove the spark plugs (not just the leads)....obviously they will be hot. Then put the car in 4th gear with handbrake ON...... one foot firmly on brake pedal and other foot must be depressing the clutch pedal at all times.....then crank the car on the ignition. Make sure though you do have free space at the front but the car should not lurch forward if the brakes are good.

then go and buy a replacement for your burnt out starter!

Jon the Chief

[Wickey]

If in confined spaces or difficulty in getting a good run off with the car on a road then leave the clutch pedal down overnight by trapping a piece of wood against the side sill. In the morning remove the wood and in neutral start the car up and get the engine warmed up. Remove the spark plugs (not just the leads)....obviously they will be hot. Then put the car in 4th gear with handbrake ON...... one foot firmly on brake pedal and other foot must be depressing the clutch pedal at all times.....then crank the car on the ignition. Make sure though you do have free space at the front but the car should not lurch forward if the brakes are good.

then go and buy a replacement for your burnt out starter!

Jon the Chief

Technically explain then why it would burn the starter motor out. That is if you understand magnetic flux and current without blah blah blah blah (given I have done this method many times on older cars before learning the obvious prevention remedy which was explained actually many years ago by a renowned Lotus Garage and I have never had a single problem the way I did it other than the odd flattening of the battery if that was also not in good shape). Indeed a common problem can be starter motors jamming and a turn at the rear on the shaft if available spigot can often resolve without the starter motor having burnt out. The comment said 'crank the car' not keep the ignition key in the start position so the starter motor would not even get hot. Best read, interpret and understand posts before just jumping in. Removing the plugs obviously helps reduce any unnecessary load from compression that the starter motor usually has to overcome but perhaps you would not understand that either and allows maximum for want of a better word 'whip' between engine and clutch plate which again hopefully has had some chance of relieving itself if again as stated is left with the pressure 'off' from the clutch plate overnight.

Biggest concern really would be damage to the starter motor cog teeth and worse damage to the flywheel teeth (certainly NOT a burnt or burned out starter motor) albeit the latter is a big potential risk. However whatever method chosen other than removing the engine and stripping out the clutch does have potential risk of damage to the gearbox, propshaft, driveshaft, rotoflex's or even diff. But then you guys just love slamming comments of new members. The idea of forums is to share methods that individuals have found worked for them and not just try to make oneself appear of a superior talent or experience with smug replies on others IMHO. Anyway at ?45 for a new starter motor I would prefer that to the one that did it one of the other ways posted here and tore the donut, with the pre safety spigot not present on the model of the car the shaft ended up pushed through the boot floor.

Like I said in a few posts up 'prevention is better than cure' when storing up the car trap the clutch pedal down.

[billwill]

The overload problem occurs if the procedure does NOT free the clutch.

The motor will then be taking its STALL current, which is much higher than the normal running current, because when it is stalled, not spinning, there is no back-emf.

If the person doing this procedure does not realise this then repeated attempts with the starter moter could indeed damage it.


Sou you are both right under differing circumstances. So no need to fight.

[Galwaylotus]

I wasn't interested in starting a pissing match!
In any event, I freed the clutch before even leaving the driveway and then drove four or five miles to warm the systems and de-rust my brake discs. All good at the moment and thank you to all who provided suggestions.

[Wickey]

I wasn't interested in starting a pissing match!
In any event, I freed the clutch before even leaving the driveway and then drove four or five miles to warm the systems and de-rust my brake discs. All good at the moment and thank you to all who provided suggestions.

Does not look like you are interested either in the courtesy of explaining what you did to free the clutch which would perhaps assist in the history of the post ..............is it going to be an irish secret or do you not even know what you did

Anyway nothing better than a 'piss up' so back to the pissing contest then.

Bill, well done for understanding Lenz's law (often outwits mechanical engineers ) but car starter motors are designed to take the high current which is why the wires to them are big and the motors so frigging heavy. In actual fact the starter motor WILL initially spin as it throws out the cog until the cog engages with the starter ring and then well even under normally start conditions will come under 'almost' full stall mode as the engine initially pushes the pistons up the cylinders on compression so will not be actually turning round very fast.

Anyone who knows the sound of a starter motor that is faulty and the cog stuck back will hear the high speed whirring of the starter motor as it revs high. However when trying to start a car especially the old classics the ER ER Er can happen quite a lot before the engine fires up and at this point the starter motor is only just turning over in revs relative to the engine revolution which is NOT very fast so current is high as back emf only increases as a motors revolutions increase which a starter motor rarely would do so accounted for in its design. So don't get confused with comparing a car starter function to a typical electric motor that is designed to continually run at a higher revolution after start up.

To reduce cabling size/weight/cost in later cars, modern starters have solenoids but the same principle on the motor design to take a high stall current load prevails and still part of its functional requirement. Included now too in modern cars are many other circuit protection devices. However again no one suggested the ignition key was left in the 'on' position while nothing was happening so maybe for the old 'elf and safety' it could have been stated but a fine line in treating people as 'could they be that dumb' .......trying several times will obviously start to heat up the motor as the current will be high due to the back emf not reducing the current like on a continous running motor it would slowly build up as the motors revolutions build up. Cabling too will start to get hot which I am sure many have already experienced when an engine is proving difficult to start and the heat starts burning all the leaking oil splashed over the engine but as the starter motor disengages when a second attempt is made it will again rotate as it throws out the starter dog and simply just doing its normally job apart from the flywheel won't turn. However from my past experience I have usually had the clutches break free on the first or second attempt. Time to zip up now before the trolls appear

[Galwaylotus]

I just warmed up the engine in neutral then shut it down, put it in first gear and tried to start the engine. It almost started and I instinctively pushed in the clutch to find that it was free. Just following the suggestions in the thread!