+2 fitting doors

[wotsisname]

I'm just about to attach the doors to my +2 for the first time in many years (narrow garage, so have left this until the end). The bobbins in the body have significantly larger holes than the studs on the door hinge. Am I missing some spacers or is this as designed, for adjustment ? I have the shims to pack the hinge outward.
cheers
Adrian

edit.. "spacers".. bushes might be a better description.

[NYK]

Hi Adrian, that sounds very similar to what I had with my car. The oversized holes you describe allow you to get the the best fit in the x y axis and the shims and door catch gives adjustment in the z axis. Photo of my car for comparison if that help.
Nic

[wotsisname]

thanks Nic, I've taken a close look at the various manuals and looks like I was just being a bit too cautious.
looks like you are making good progress
Adrian

[Bigbaldybloke]

You are a little ahead of me, I’ve just finished the boot floor and panels, doors next. My doors are bare so I need to fit the new hinges to them next. Are you completely rebuilding your doors with the motors, frames, locks etc in them before fitting, or just fitting the bare door then building them up once on the car?
I wondered if it might be easier to install and align the doors without all that extra weight.

[NYK]

When the body shop resprayed the car they hung and adjusted doors, boot lid and bonnet. The bonnet had to be removed to fit out the engine bay but I left doors and boot lid in place as the alignment was perfect. I also think offering up a fully built door, with all that weight, would be asking for trouble, all to easy to clunk the paintwork.

[Bigbaldybloke]

All the panels were off mine and sprayed separately, my plan was to install the bare doors but just wondered what others have done or are planning to do. Hopefully once hung they won’t move significantly with all the extra weight of the motor, frame and glass.

[jono]

In my experience it's much better to fit the door shells bare and then install the frames, motors, crank mechanism etc.

One reason is they are easier to work on with the door held in position by the car and you will need to adjust the frame fit anyway by shimming the fixings at the base of the frame legs with washers to get the correct closure and alignment between the top frame and body/seal.

It's a nasty job and I seem to recall it took me the best part of 2 weekends to get both doors built up and adjusted so that I was happy. Hopefully this time experience will make it quicker but it's still daunts me.

...you have to get the crank arm 'cocked'/pre loaded and held with a pin before fitting it to ensure you don't guillotine your fingers

All in all the skills of a gynaecologist would come in handy (a profession which my brother always used to compare with decorating your front hall through the letterbox!)

[Bigbaldybloke]

Thanks Jono, confirms my plan and my worst feelings about the job, hence one of the last things to do!

[wotsisname]

just posted a reply but it doesn't appear - so this might be a repeat.
I'm restricted on garage space so have built my doors on the "bench". I won't really be able to work on them unless the car is outside, once fitted.
The door weight is 18.7 Kg (without mirror, ashtray, trim panel, arm rest, stainless waist trim nor small chrome finisher - but otherwise complete)
I plan to fit on the next decent weekend.. with the aid of a couple of willing volunteers from my household.
It was reasonably easy to assemble when on a table and across a couple of chairs when doing the waist seals. I messed up the cutting of one of the outer waist seals , so waiting for a replacement - this can be done on the car in the garage.
Adrian

[wotsisname]

A few things I found ( I followed a previous post on here that was very comprehensive)
The lever only needs to be cocked and held with a "pin" prior to attaching the motor. Once that is attached it is "safe". It's not easy (possible?) to feed the motor + arm through the hole in the door, so I attached all the bits while it was in the door (easier on the bench ! - maybe fit the motor before the door is added to the body ?
attach the electrics (and earth) to the motor before fitting
on the early +2 the lock mechanism can be assembled before or after putting the window in (just have to raise the window all the way).. check the length of the setscrews used to attach the lock mechanism as they could jam against the chrome frame.
the lock mechanism has 2 springs. The hidden one is a torsion type that moves between two positions. If it's missing then the door will keep unlocking itself. [if anyone has a source/specification for these I would be interested - I tried a local spring maker but they want to dismantle the working lock to make it exact - so I've made something that is just ok]
I found it best to loosen the chrome frame and clean up the surface along the window aperture to allow the weatherstrip to fit (fitting and cutting takes a lot of patience/time - use the excess length you cut off to practice the cut around the quarter light).
The inner weatherseal (draught excluder type) is clipped in, the clips I was originally supplied with were incorrect and would require the weather strip to be pushed upward to fit. SJS sell the correct item.
I found it easiest to fit the inner strip last (then tighten all the other screws) - the clips can be pushed in with a suitable screwdriver. [cut it to size before attaching the outer seal though]

hopefully this helps.. it was fiddly and took some time but not as bad as I imagined.. although I have yet to check everything fits and aligns as it should !

Adrian

[Bigbaldybloke]

Finally got around to rebuilding my doors prior to refitting them, I was not impressed by the plastic hinge bushes so have turned up some bronze ones and reamed them to size using an adjustable reamer to ensure a nice fit on the new hinge bars I bought some time ago. That all went well and the hinges work really smoothly with no slop or play. The next problem is the window frames themselves. There are two screwed bosses on the door catch end of the frames that are used to secure the frame to the door, unfortunately there are snapped off bolts in both of these on the drivers door, does anyone know what thread these are, I’m guessing 1/4” UNF but they could be UNC. I’m going to have to carefully drill these out and retap if necessary. As the frame looks like it’s solid brass under the chrome plate and the bolts look like steel I’m going to have to be very careful.
I also seem to be missing the passenger side door lock, anyone got an early type or know of anyone that has one, I’ve looked online at the usual suspects and can find a later type but not the early type.

[mikealdren]

Hi BBB,
the door locks depend on whether your car is an early or later model. They're all standard industry parts readily available but not as cheap as they once were. My later car has BL parts as used on contemporary Allegro/Marina/MGB etc.

I'm away until the 19th but if you don't have answers by then, I can send you some photos and let you know the frame thread size - do you have a parts list, that shows the thread sizes for most things, very useful?

[Donels]

I would imagine the bolts are UNF. UNC is usually used in aluminium alloy.

Having had my doors off for a few years I trial fitted them prior to sending to the paint shop. I got a much better fit than it did have, then made some double washers to provide good clamping across both bobbins, so the bobbins are clamped by the door hinge one side and double washer the other.

I will refit the doors then fit windows etc, otherwise they’re just too heavy to easily fit without damaging the new paint.

[wotsisname]

The lock parts are quite hard to source. The chrome bits not so bad. Main lock part is Viva HA I believe, there were some on ebay recently but turned out to be incorrect. Best of luck, probably find this forum your best bet. The washer on the inside of the car needs to be a reasonably thick/solid item.. mine first attempt went slightly concave and it was impossible to reposition the door a small amount. I agree about the plastic bushes. My doors sag a little in hot weather, I believe they are the cause. They also suffer a little depending on whether the window is up or down. I plan to get some bronze alternatives made. Sorry, I cant remember f unc or unf.

[Bigbaldybloke]

Great suggestion about the plates instead of washers on the hinge studs. I’ve got some 3mm plate that should do the job. I think I’ll try some heat on the broken in bolt, it shouldn’t be corroded in if the boss on the frame is solid brass.
What happened with the missing bits is the car went off to be professionally resprayed but the person doing it had some sort of breakdown and so the car came back in pieces, but it seems that some bags of bits didn’t come back. I didn’t help matters by not doing anything to the car when it came back for about 10 years………
I’ll see if there is a Vauxhall Viva owners club!