Lotus Elan

Brace across rear turrets +2S

PostPost by: Matt Elan » Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:52 pm

Just to clarify my last but one post - Alan you are right never use loctite on a bolt going into a helicoil. I meant to say I use locktite in the newly threaded hole when inserting the insert as extra security and I've not had a problem yet.
Hope this clarifies things
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:33 pm

Hi Matt,
Sorry but you should not use Loctite to secure a Helicoil. A Helicoil is held in place by it's compresssion when assembling with Insertion Tool.
Sorry to be direct but i was a QC Engineer for 20 years in the Aero Space Industry.
We used Helicoils all the time.
I hope you understand i'm trying to help.
Cheers
Alan
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PostPost by: Foxie » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:15 pm

HCA wrote:
If there is enough movement on the rear turrets to warrant such a brace, I then got to thinking about the fronts where of course there is nothing. Then reading up on the subject, I see many of your serious competition bretheren say there is movement and manage to squeeze in a cross brace between the engine and radiator. Now, I guess if you are regularly cocking the inner wheel in corners this might be necessary, but for road driving?


I made up a front tower brace from 1" square stainless box section. The Mark II is in front in the pic.

Bolts to a couple of 2" square section brackets secured by the tower-to-body bolts.

:)
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PostPost by: HCA » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:20 pm

Impressive! Do you race your car, or is it just road use?
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PostPost by: Foxie » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:27 pm

HCA wrote:Impressive! Do you race your car, or is it just road use?


I've been hillclimbing and doing a bit of historic circuit racing since 2007. I won the Historics Class 4 in the Irish National Hillclimb Championship in 2018 and 2019.

It's still a fully legal road car, with radio, heater, carpets and electric windows ! And I drive it to all events.

I bought the 1970 Plus 2S out of a scrapyard in 1985. It took me 6 months to get it on the road.

Shortly afterwards one of the front wheels developed an unusual attitude. A check revealed the front tower had a fatigue crack almost the complete way round.

I lifted the body and did a weld repair, straightened and reinforced the rear tower suspension ears and tidied up some bits of tinworm.

I fitted a Spyder chassis in 1998.

My wife had (still has ! ) a E30 BMW 316. I fitted a front tower strut brace and was amazed how it tightened up the feel of the car.

The foregoing propelled me to try to improve the Lotus unbraced front tower design, so I developed a front tower brace for the Lotus.

:)
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PostPost by: HCA » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:56 pm

Good for you! Well done!

I bet it has all changed since my days in Ireland when it was turn up on the day in your Mini Cooper to pit youself against the Anglias and Imps at Rathdrum, Powerscourt, Dunboyne and if the cash allowed, in the Park! (and before you ask, no, I won very little but had good fun!) They have all gone now of course.
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PostPost by: Foxie » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:41 pm

I wouldn't say it has ALL has changed !

The great hills around Dublin have long gone (Too many objecting residents now ! :( ) although Dunboyne now has a non-competitive retrospective week-end every October.

Corkscrew Hill and Ballyallaban in Clare, and Knockalla in Donegal, not to mention Cairncastle in Larne in the Wee North, are classic hills still being run.

And the Anglias, Minis, MGBs, Imps etc. are still around, if now running as Historics !

:)
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Ballyvaughan17b.jpg and
KMcAa.jpg and
MOS.jpg and
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SA.jpg and
DSC_1492.jpg and
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PostPost by: JonB » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:45 am

Foxie wrote:I made up a front tower brace from 1" square stainless box section. The Mark II is in front in the pic.

Bolts to a couple of 2" square section brackets secured by the tower-to-body bolts.


I wonder, could you post a few pictures of the brace in situ, please?
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PostPost by: HCA » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:35 pm

Foxie wrote:I wouldn't say it has ALL has changed !

And the Anglias, Minis, MGBs, Imps etc. are still around, if now running as Historics !

:)


I am homesick!

There must have been a job lot of sky blue paint hit Ireland recently...

Re the brace. It is a pity that the bolts you will use are not just 30mm more forward! If they were, then a small pipe with a turnbuckle would be able to squeeze in just under the water pump pulley and could be spread between two plates behind the bolts.

As it is, you will need a couple of pretty hefty plates - and even then, is there any danger of putting undue strain on the two mounting points. I wonder how they do it in racing? Maybe Rohan, if you are reading, you would tell us?
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PostPost by: HCA » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:09 pm

Kelvedon I see makes a brace for the two seater Elan. It goes through the inner wings and joins directly onto the turrts. I cannot find anything though on a brace for the +2!
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PostPost by: Foxie » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:39 pm

HCA wrote:
Re the brace. It is a pity that the bolts you will use are not just 30mm more forward! If they were, then a small pipe with a turnbuckle would be able to squeeze in just under the water pump pulley and could be spread between two plates behind the bolts.

As it is, you will need a couple of pretty hefty plates - and even then, is there any danger of putting undue strain on the two mounting points. I wonder how they do it in racing? Maybe Rohan, if you are reading, you would tell us?


The bolts used are the front engine bay to suspension tower. A straight line between them goes exactly through the centre of the fan pulley !

I don't understand what you have in mind about "hefty plates" !

I've taken a few pics for JonB, and done up a quick drawing. The middle pic needs to be rotated 180 degs.
Maybe it makes the set-up a little clearer.

The mounting brackets are actually 40mm box section, not 2" as i said earlier.
1/4" bolt on the forward end of the bracket, which bolts to a lug on the rad mount, to fix it horizontally
Attachments
IMG_0976.JPG and
IMG_0981.JPG and
IMG_0982.JPG and
Strutbrace.jpg and
Last edited by Foxie on Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: Foxie » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:44 pm

HCA wrote:Kelvedon I see makes a brace for the two seater Elan. It goes through the inner wings and joins directly onto the turrts. I cannot find anything though on a brace for the +2!


I've never seen a Elan brace anywhere. I had a look at the Kelvedon website, but I couldn't find the brace.

Do you have a pic or a link ? I'm very interested to see how they do it.

I imagine modifying the two seater version to fit the Plus 2 would be straightforward. It would just need to be widened. Cut and weld in an extension.

:)
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:11 pm

Distance between the front towers on Plus 2 and Elan is the same

cheers
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PostPost by: Foxie » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:20 pm

rgh0 wrote:Distance between the front towers on Plus 2 and Elan is the same

cheers
Rohan


Correct !

Homer nods ! :)
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PostPost by: HCA » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:19 am

I was a bit hasty in my reply Foxie - I was thinking a straight brace without remembering your original picture showing that dog-legged the water pump pulley. A straight bar would have be further forward and rely on the plates from the body mount to the rad bracket.

But yes, your design has overcome this.

I’d like to know exactly how much flex there is on the front and how much it is felt. There is not an awful lot on the subject in the archives.

I came across two solutions - one by Elantricbits who took two diagonal braces from centre of cross member out to the turrets through the body. The other is Kelsport with my thoughts of a straight brace but instead of using the body mounts, they went through where you hit the front of the turrets.

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=29115&start=

https://kelvedonlotus.co.uk/product/fro ... brace-bar/
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