Lotus Elan

S2 26R Front Bumper question...

PostPost by: Frogelan » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:15 am

Many thanks to all my "fellow anoraks" who have made contributions to this thread...I did not expect to see so much enthusiasm!

I particularly liked the photos from vstibberd of 26 S2 40 as period photos of oval headlamped S2s seem to be very rare. I think I should collect these to accompany a HTP application in France in due course for a racing S2 (GTS10) it will not get kicked into outer space (which would be an expensive waste of effort).

Nicolas Mauduit's comments on a tidy engine bay (re: plug leads) concur with mine and this will be a priority for my project.

I am new to Elans (I bought my S1 1/2 wreck last July), but would be interested in seeing other photos / having your friendly observations so that I can understand whether:

- the S2 "R" had a visible fuel filler cap or not in period (location)
- all of them had the "high back" chassis
- the front and suspension spring ratings used in period (for the S2, I have found the S1 information)
- many competitors used the 3.44:1 c/c & p ratio that was homologated (Nurburgring use?)
- other wheels (Minilites notably) were used in racing on the S2 "R" in 65 / 66
- (specific to) S2 "R" diff cooling (with oil cooler and bendix pump)...
- the shape of the original homologated sump guard

Andrew
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PostPost by: Davidb » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:51 pm

Andrew, To take your questions in order:
The fuel filler was the same as the road car-there was an optional larger tank available

Sorry, don't know what a 'high back chassis" is. The rear suspension mounts were raised an inch, I know that.

Spring rates: 128lbs front, 100 lbs rear--according to Lotus June 1965 "Handling and Maintenance" notes for the 26R.

Do you mean the 4:44 cwp? I would think that would be a bit low for the Nurbrurgring-but then, I have never been there...

Other wheels? During the time the 26R was current 6 inch wide wheels were available from Lotus. I think wider wheels-sometimes Minilites were fitted but more in the early seventies. I could be wrong on that.

The cars had a diff cooler as you describe. 26-S2-18 also had a similar set up for the gearbox.

Never heard mention of a sump guard.
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:06 pm

David, thank you for your time and patience.

Ok...high back...we mean the same principle. We have the same notes on springs.

I meant the 3.44:1 which was homologated...[today's Avon tyres make this look not so impractical compared to the R6's that were used in period]. I can send you the link to FIA paper 127 if you do not have this.

I will look to see if the oil cooler for the rear axle is homologated / accepted pre-31/12/1965.

[Just as well I also fit in to the FIA's date by just a few months ;-)]
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:03 am

Hi
Thanks for the comments re the roll bar has a custom made FIA compliant cage built by a gentleman that build dakar and WRC cars, it has proved its worth.... few more pictures.

p1010979.jpg and
26-S2-40 roll cage

p1010978.jpg and
26-S2-40 roof off


Correction re the high back chassis - this refers to the area over the diff being raised to allow the car to run lower with driveshafts essentially parallel. It does not change rear inner wishbone pickup of lift the rear shock position, the shock absorber shaft should be shortened to avoid damaging the foot valves

S2's also had smaller rear disks and mag upright housings to allow the piper to in closer.

S2 had oil cooler homologated, mine has it fitted, with pump in boot and cooler under boot floor, mod to rear of diff housing. I'll find original photo's later tonight.

I've got the original shell for the S2 and also an original S1 26R shell, on both shells the air plenum for the heater was glassed over, or rather enter cut out. My S2 did not have a heater or plenum.

Cheers

V
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:18 am

"It does not change rear inner wishbone pickup of lift the rear shock position, the shock absorber shaft should be shortened to avoid damaging the foot valves

S2's also had smaller rear disks and mag upright housings to allow the piper to in closer."

Thanks for this. If the height of the turret is increased by say 20mm (I have a friend with a high back chassis so I have seen one in detail), the suspension has an additional 20 mm of movement.

Why would it be less ? [I will be fitting adjustable Konis with a droop limiter, but have not yet bought springs. All ideas on 2.25" springs welcomed...]

A
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PostPost by: Davidb » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:42 am

V Stibard, As I recall, on both my 26Rs the inner rear wishbone pickups were raised-necessitating the raising of the diff housing. Raising the diff housing alone would not lower the car. Both had mag rear uprights. Possibly a later fitting on 26R-5 along with the 6 inch wheels.
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:00 am

Andrew

The chassis turret height is exactly same as standard elan rear turret, it cannot be raised without requiring modification to the body shell as there is limited clearance already. The difference is raising the differential to allow the car to be run lower, this requires the shock absorber shaft to be shortened to ensure full bump and rebound travel is retained.

The TTR mount is period, sets the shock absorber shaft in approximately same position as lotocone, the mounts offered by Kelsport on other hand raises the shock absorber by an additional 1-2 inches, but requires a hole in body to allow the alloy mount to project above body line.

If you look on Kelsport website "Lotus Elan & 26R - Road, Trackday Race & FIA - Suspension and Steering" for Product, Full Race Top Spring Mount, Part Number RACETSM01, Description - Designed for full race use, this spring mount is taller then standard items and fixes the damper in a higher position in order to control droop. Also requires a spherical joint and circlip to complete installation."

I used these when we rebuilt the car, it projects about 1.5 inches above the body surface. Following accident the current rebuild is using the TTR top mount. (see picture in post below).

Cheers

Vaughan
Last edited by vstibbard on Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: 661 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:40 am

TTR setup
High diff mounting.
Plastic shocks!
Image
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:53 am

Graeme,

Looks very good indeed. I'm pleased and reassured by Vaughn and yourself that I am not alone going down the S2 "R" route! (NB: my car is not a real "R", but it is a S2).

The TTR shocks are referenced from the front of a BMW rumour goes. I plan to use old fashioned Konis from SP Suspension (ordered and paid for, but which I have not yet had a chance to see).

I suppose the strut inserts are from Mr T (Gaz) and that you have nickle plated the wishbones ?

I need to quietly think through the posts from Vaughn first but will be in contact no doubt with other questions!

Andrew
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PostPost by: 661 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:07 am

Frogelan wrote:Graeme,

Looks very good indeed. I'm pleased and reassured by Vaughn and yourself that I am not alone going down the S2 "R" route! (NB: my car is not a real "R", but it is a S2).

The TTR shocks are referenced from the front of a BMW rumour goes. I plan to use old fashioned Konis from SP Suspension (ordered and paid for, but which I have not yet had a chance to see).

I suppose the strut inserts are from Mr T (Gaz) and that you have nickle plated the wishbones ?

I need to quietly think through the posts from Vaughn first but will be in contact no doubt with other questions!

Andrew

I suspect the casings for the shocks could come from anywhere but the valving must (should) be specific. TTR have spent a long time trialling/testing theirs to get where they are now.
I haven't bought shocks yet as there has been a bit of movement from other companies using monotubes and there's a moving feast of FIA rules on spring platforms. It would seem that FIA rules for new passports will be non threaded spring platforms, you have to use spacers. I don't need shocks to have a rolling chassis and they make it difficult to get the chassis to approx. ride height.
Mine is an S2 too.
Having heard the woes of others who have tried to mix and match components from the usual suspects, I've elected to use TTR exclusively. Although stuff doesn't fit without fettling (!) at least it can't be blamed on incompatible parts , and they are amazingly helpful.
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:09 am

few more pictures for you, original differential oil cooler, machined TTR top shock mount and the cages when it was being made.
img_1042.jpg and
diff oil cooler pump alongside tank

img_1043.jpg and
oil cooler mounted under boot to left of exhaust

p1000438.jpg and
Machined up TTR top shock mount

p1010845.jpg and
roll cage prior to painting


Cheers

V
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:22 am

Hi Graeme,

I've been meaning to reach out to the GAZ guys as they seem pretty switched on. Who are you referring to? As I'm working out direction for the Shapecraft at the moment and like the GAZ stuff and have had good quality feedback. Just want to see if they can do rears with the adjustment knob on the tube for ease of use.

I've the original spring height blocks from the 26R, essentially they are aluminium rings of various heights, split in half across circumference, they are placed under the spring and halves lock wired together.

Interestingly the Armstrongs in period as I understand could be had with fixed platform or threaded, latter used on F1 cars. Sadly the period photo's of my armstrong's are fixed platform front and rear. Unlike UK, the Australian historic rules still allow use of the threaded adjustable platforms. I've just purchased the top spec Koni double adjustable shocks for the latest rebuild.

Like Graeme advises, stick with one supplier, TTR parts are quality, fettling asides with room to improve, lighten etc. I use electrolysis nickel plating on all my suspensions parts.

Andrew, re your other earlier questions, my car was delivered with 3.77 diff with cam and pawl type LSD, it had fuel filler through body work, an in case of my car if was delivered form factory with two fuel tanks installed the normal tank and above the diff a large long range tank that extended over the std tank.

Andrew, if you have questions more than happy to share my experiences and knowledge, I've been playing with Elan's since I was 18 in UK and Australia, where coincidently I met Graeme and reconnected through this forum!! My email is [email protected]" target="_blank if it makes it easier, although via the forum leaves something for others as well.

Cheers

V
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p1010866.jpg and
26-S2-40 front suspension electrolysis nickel coating
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PostPost by: 661 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:20 pm

We were at school together and now look at the mess we're in!
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PostPost by: elj221c » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:26 pm

Frogelan wrote: I will be fitting adjustable Konis with a droop limiter

A


The 26R tubes are shorter which necessitates a shorter insert.They don't need droop limiters because there is less travel.

I had my Konis shortened and valved appropriately for the spring rate I was using back in the '80s.

The notes I made at the time indicated that they were modified by removing 5/8" from the shock and reduced travel by 2". Valving for 120lb/" springs. This was done by Banks of Peterborough although I don't think they are in the business now.
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PostPost by: Davidb » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:50 pm

Andrew and Vaughan: I owe you an apology! I was concerned enough about the rear suspension mounting on the 26Rs that I phoned "The Oracle" in England this morning and asked him (We first communicated in 1984). TT's response was that NO the rear suspension pick up points were not raised! So I have to confess to having a false memory, although there is a longer reason... As can be seen in the photo that Vaughan posted the rear suspension pick up point on the 26R is identical to the road cars, it is other parts that are modified.
So I stand corrected.
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