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Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chassis

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:37 pm
by bloodknock
Hello Peeps
Youve all probably realised that I pick up bits of this restoration as parts availability, access and the whim takes me.
Ive just fitted carpets, and came to the point of filling the gearbox and then fitting the gear lever. I was unable to get the gear lever cap into the aperture to screw the cap onto the gearbox. The cap fouls the NS chassis arm.
In the build I have used the correct engine mounts and spacers,the clearance under the carb air box is 14mm. There does not appear to be any undue adverse positioning of the engine.
Ive checked the gearbox mounts and that appears straight.
Any suggestions? No butchery will be undertaken!
Thanks
Bob

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:09 pm
by nmauduit
from your sketch and photo it seems that your gearbox is not centered with the chassis, you may want to push it back towards the middle...

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:00 pm
by pharriso
nmauduit wrote:from your sketch and photo it seems that your gearbox is not centered with the chassis, you may want to push it back towards the middle...


+1... You can slacken the Gearbox bracket to the chassis & get a few mm....

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:39 am
by MarkDa
Bob
If you lower the tail of the box you should be able to get the cap on and as it's narrower at the top it may well not foul when you reset the box.
Combined with taking any available sideways tolerance you should get it in.
I seem to recollect that mine was not exactly central.
The gaiter has to go through the centre console of course but that can be offset a bit relative to the lever.
Incidentally if the gaiter needs replacing check what diameter the new one is. I ended up having to get a new plate as well as it was smaller!
Mark

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:30 am
by bloodknock
Thanks Gentlemen
Her indoors is dragging me off for a weeks holiday so i'll have a crack when I get back and let you know what happens.
Thanks again
Bob

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:59 pm
by RichardHawkins
Bob,

I have a similar problem with the gear lever not being in the centre of the chassis. With the left and right engine mountings being different you would expect the gear lever to lean to the left a little. In my case the error was considerable as the prop shaft was also fouling the chassis. I made a spacer to fit between the right hand engine mounting and the chassis. This has the effect of rotating the engine anti clockwise viewed from the top. This packer has centralised the gearbox in the chassis.

Richard Hawkins

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:28 pm
by bloodknock
OK, back on the job.
I propped the gear box on the trusty trolley jack, released (took off) the gearbox mounting checked all dimensions for centralisation - all looked good. The engine mounts are all correct, the engine is tilted to the right from the front, allowing adequate clearance for the carb assy. I lowered the gearbox a few centimeters, which allowed me to get the gear change cap on. jacked it back up and refitted the mounting. The gearbox sit centrally in the chassis but is tilted.
When I re-examined the gear lever cap it was located less than a millimeter from the chassis rail, sure, there was clearance but you can bet that engine torque reaction will cause it to hit the chassis.
So, unless anyone has experienced this and identified a simple cause that they can inform me of, i'll try Richards solution.
Thanks Chaps
Bob

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:04 pm
by Grizzly
On my 2 seater i removed both engine mounts to do the PU glue trick so i had a few days of two stock mounts (didn't have a weber mount fitted so both side where the same level) one thing i noticed was my gear selector was bang on centre of the chassis hole and when i refitted the correct mounts to rocked the box slightly so the selector was slightly closer to the right side of the hole.

This is with the Weber engine mount fitted, can't really see but the bottom of the box is bang on centre of the chassis and it's the lean of the box that moves the selector over.
p1040181.jpg and


I found the gearbox mount always stayed central the the tilt of the engine made the gear selector more or less out of centre. Which leads me to my question, is your engine in the centre of the car? Do you have the correct engine spacers fitted and on the correct side? and does the selector sit in the correct position if you level out the two engine mounts?

Either way your going to have a problem when you come to fit the metal plate with the gator which screws to the floor if your no careful.
p1040190.jpg
p1040190.jpg (60.2 KiB) Viewed 952 times

elan-parts-fa.jpg and

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:51 pm
by bloodknock
Hi Grizzly
I'm confused.
I have checked the engine mounts and mounting spacers, all correct. The chassis is a new (1986) Lotus unit.
The engine and box are on the centre line (double checked).
I have around 15mm clearance under the carb airbox assy.
My gear lever mount is shifted to the LEFT looking forward, within 1.5mm of the chassis rail,which would result in it hitting the chassis rail through engine torque twist. You say yours is to the right????? correct???
Now I recon that if the right (looking fowards) engine mount were spaced say 2mm forewards of the chassis mount it would twist the engine/gearbox assembly towards the left looking forewards, so the gear lever aperture would move to the right giving me better clearance. Correct????
regards
Bob

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:41 pm
by Craven
May be of interest, I used the appropriate part of an old engine mount to offset the engine to overcome a similar problem. It proved to be just about right on thickness and of course has right spacing.
It can be place in front on one side or behind the chassis point on the other.

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:35 pm
by MarkDa
Bob
Is the chassis hole in the middle?
I know that you are reluctant to enlarge the hole, but if everything else is correct then why not just do it?
It'll be unnoticeable unlike the flange easing you did for the manifold.
Failing that you may well get enough by easing the RH engine mount holes and reducing the airbox to footwell clearance. At the same time as spacing the mount to rotated the engine in horizontal plane.
Maybe put the LH mount the other opposite side to add to rotation?
The gaiter plate fixing is not a big deal as the centre console does most of the work in locating it, as such it should be centred on the chassis not the lever.
Mark

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:14 am
by bloodknock
Checked the chassis geometry and it all looks good round the gear lever.
I like the idea of using an old engine mount for a spacer, I think Ive got one in the Garage Bermuda triangle.
Thanks Chaps
Bob

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:11 am
by Grizzly
bloodknock wrote:Hi Grizzly
I'm confused.
I have checked the engine mounts and mounting spacers, all correct. The chassis is a new (1986) Lotus unit.
The engine and box are on the centre line (double checked).
I have around 15mm clearance under the carb airbox assy.
My gear lever mount is shifted to the LEFT looking forward, within 1.5mm of the chassis rail,which would result in it hitting the chassis rail through engine torque twist. You say yours is to the right????? correct???
Now I recon that if the right (looking fowards) engine mount were spaced say 2mm forewards of the chassis mount it would twist the engine/gearbox assembly towards the left looking forewards, so the gear lever aperture would move to the right giving me better clearance. Correct????
regards
Bob

Yes confusing.. Sorry.

On my car the gearbox was central between the two chassis rails selector maybe even slightly towards the left/passenger side with two stock ford mounts fitted (both same height mounts and the cam cover was more or less level) when i refitted the Lotus modified mount the engine and box rocked clockwise in the car (looking from the front) moving the carbs away from the top of the footwell, because the gearbox was fixed at the bottom in the centre that acted like a pivot moving the top of the gear box towards the right hand side of the trans tunnel (drivers side if you have a RHD car which i assume you do being in the Uk).

If you are saying your gearbox is in the centre of the two chassis rails and you have the correct mounts fitted the correct way assuming you drilled your new chassis is that in the correct position under the body? I have the advantage of having my original chassis with the original spacers in the original positions fitted by the factory and i can tell you the chassis has spacers down one side of the tunnel and not the other so it doesn't sit perfectly square under the trans tunnel.

Mark, If you fit the gaiter and plate as factory intended the plastic centre console has nothing to do with the position of the gaiter on the selector, the plate i put a picture of above holds the gaiter and is screwed to the floor to stop noise/water/exhaust gasses etc getting into the cabin...... i've seen it bodged by fitting the gaiter to the console hole but in that case there is nothing sealing the selector hole in the body or if you simply move the plate the console won't fit over the gaiter.... Here is a thread about how that gaiter fits.....
lotus-gearbox-f37/gear-selector-gaiter-seater-t35153.html

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:48 pm
by MarkDa
I quite agree about needing to use the plate to reduce fumes and noise, only using the console would be hopeless.
Mew plate may be needed if a new gaiter has been sourced as these seem to be a bit smaller than the originals for some reason.
My main point was meant to be that the console hole determines the gaiter location

In itself the body won't affect position of engine/gearbox as they're chassis mounted. But as detailed in the reference thread there can be secondary effects.
I naively set my body square/level with the chassis and drilled/tappear the front uprights to fix it.

After finishing everything and running the car for some time I realised I had a problem with the engine being too high on RHS and air box catching bonnet return lip on torque movement - shutting bonnet had not been noticeably affected.
Trouble is that by this time it was far too late to reset the body and I was left with rotating the engine - which I did by elongating the mount holes at the engine end by 6mm or so. I've still got (at the moment anyway!) reasonable clearance above the footwell.

Hopefully Bob will get the room needed by judicious use of spacers - no doubt we'll be advised in due course.

Re: Elan Sprint Gear lever fitting gear lever cap snags chas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:03 pm
by alan.barker
Are the spacers between the engine mounting and the block on the correct side.
They should be fitted on the exhaust side :?:
Is the cylinder block correct or is it a 1600 block which i think is wider and needs smaller spacers under the exhaust manifold.
Alan