Lotus Elan

Amber side Repeater again?

PostPost by: Chancer » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:54 am

The pair on my vehicle are the rare ones I think, despite them looking slimmer and more stylish than the usual caravan or kit car ones I think they look dreadfull and completely spoil the lines of the vehicle.

I would remove them in a heartbeat but from what year did they become a legal requirement and/or what year are they expected to be fitted and function for an MOT test.

And for my compatriots here in France, could I get through a Contr?le Technique without them, vehicle is 1971.
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PostPost by: AHM » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:32 am

Elanintheforest wrote:Does your April '67 car have them then??!!


Mark, My April '67 car does.

Mazzini wrote: I've just bought 45/6926. I have a pair of new Carello lamps and hopefully the car will come with the original set, if you get really stuck I can loan you a lense, but the lamps are made from unobtainium.

Do you still have the original inertia real seat belts in your car?


Rob,
Well done... at last!

Thanks for the kind offer. I have to get through the MOT on Monday and after that I wil enjoy the hunt for a lense. I have inertia seatbelts - again thought they were aftermarket what do the original ones look like?

Chancer wrote:from what year did they become a legal requirement and/or what year are they expected to be fitted and function for an MOT test.

And for my compatriots here in France, could I get through a Contr?le Technique without them, vehicle is 1971.


As far as I can work out 1986 - for an MOT if they are fitted they must work

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989 ... ule/7/made Section 1d

Am I correct in believing that side repeaters were an option?

Simon
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PostPost by: Mazzini » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:49 am

Elanintheforest wrote:Rob, I thought that the Carellos were only used on the first couple of months production of the S/E....maybe upto Oct / Nov 66. I've only seen them on Tim Mees' S3 S/E Coupe, which was the first S3 S/E, and he also thought they were fitted to very few cars, until Lucus could be persuaded to provide similar items for half the price!

Does your April '67 car have them then??!!

Mark


Dear Mark,

I would have agreed with you, but the Plus 2 wasn't introduced till June '67 and as we know the first few had Carello tail lamps. I don't know when the S1 Europa was introduced, but that too had the same tail lamps. I suspect the Carello agreement with Lotus ran through to mid '67

Simon (AHM) has a mid '67 car which seems untouched and it has them; I also have a period photo of Jimj's '67 S3 SE and it has them too and I have a copy of Sports Car Graphic from September '67, the featured Elan in the magazine has the Carellos.

I have suspect that Carellos ran through till mid/late '67 and then were replaced by Sparto Tex units, I don't believe Lucas repeaters were ever fitted to Elans during their production run... though, as we all know, there are no definitives with Lotus, but it's half the fun of the forum trying to figure out the running changes.

What do you have on that lovely S3 SE fhc of yours? Lucas units I bet lol :)

Cheerio,

Rob
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PostPost by: Mazzini » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:54 am

'Allo Simon,

Thanks! It's been a long struggle finding the right car.

The repeaters were part of the SE package as were the Teleflex belts. They are horrible white/grey plastic housings with a lead weight that swings forward and locks the belt. The bit that the buckle clicks into is plastic and drops to bits, I don't think it would be safe to use today. Love to see photos if you have them.

Cheers,

Rob
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:28 pm

I've never seen an S/E S3 without Lucas repeaters, apart from Tim's No 1 car!!

Brian Buckland has them as Lucas in his book (P 527) as do Robinshaw / Ross (Lucas Model 734, Part 54186E). And I bought a new pair of lenses for mine from Sue Millar last year...she asked S3 or S4/Sprint....Lucas or Sparto?!

And here' on a perfect Peter Day restored BRM S3 S/E....Lucas repeaters!!!

I think you're both having us all on now!!

Mark
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PostPost by: AHM » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:30 pm

Mark, interestingly the Lotus parts manual lists 3 side repeaters. Could SM have supplied the Sparto ones?

Pictures below. No sign of any other lamps having been mounted

S3 SE side repeater1.jpg and
S3 SE side repeater.jpg and
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:12 pm

I've been hunting through my photos (hundreds!) of Elans, and surprisingly, very few of S/E cars. But I did find an E Reg with Carello repeaters. I've no doubt yours is original, Simon, and they must have been running for quite a while.

My S3 is 38/7168, a June 67 car and has had the Lucas lamps from the beginning (I knew the car way before I bought it in 1975!). I'm now wondering if the S/E was a rare car prior to the mid-67 as both Brian Buckland and Robinshaw / Ross didn't pick up on the Carellos and assumed, as I did, that they were all Lucas. And just when I thought I knew the S3 cars pretty well....I'm chuffed to bits now!

And no, Sue couldn't have supplied the Sparto, which is why she was preparing me for the good news and the bad news. The good news was that the Lucas 734 is available....just type that into eBay.

Looking at the pictures of Rob's new S3, they are Lucas lights!

So what chassis number is your car, Simon?

Mark
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:20 pm

Elanintheforest wrote:I've been hunting through my photos (hundreds!) of Elans, and surprisingly, very few of S/E cars. But I did find an E Reg with Carello repeaters. I've no doubt yours is original, Simon, and they must have been running for quite a while.

My S3 is 38/7168, a June 67 car and has had the Lucas lamps from the beginning (I knew the car way before I bought it in 1975!). I'm now wondering if the S/E was a rare car prior to the mid-67 as both Brian Buckland and Robinshaw / Ross didn't pick up on the Carellos and assumed, as I did, that they were all Lucas. And just when I thought I knew the S3 cars pretty well....I'm chuffed to bits now!

Mark


Maybe the alternative sourcing was forced on Lotus...rather than any spec changes or vagaries of their build programme -v- stock control system?

"Lucas was soon exposed to an unfamiliar degree of competition as the strikes that hit the components industry encouraged motor manufacturers to abandon old loyalties and switch to multi-sourcing for their components needs"

Richard
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PostPost by: Mazzini » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:37 pm

That's what I enjoy about this forum we get to learn something new about our cars on a regular basis.

I've just found a road test of an S3 SE fhc from Motor week ending 13th January 1968 which I think shows a car with Lucas side repeaters.

It was the late Mick Miller, whom twenty-seven years ago, put the idea in my head that Elans were never fitted with Lucas side repeaters, but considering the Carellos are made from unobtainium and the Sparto Tex units are rare and expensive, the Luca units were and still are more readily available and a better made part - I never thought I would ever say that about a 60's Lucas component :)

Mark, I supposed you looked at Patrick McNally's road test of a BRM S3 SE dhc? Oh for a time machine and ?6,000! Oh and I know the lights on my car have been changed, the owner did it when the car was painted, hopefully the originals will be in the box of bits.

I suppose it gives us an excuse to look over old Elan photos on a wet Saturday afternoon :)
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:56 pm

So that 4 different amber lamps. Lucas, Carello, Ford, and Sparto. Sounds like what was in stock till they ran out and/or Lotus found a better price on some old-new stock.

Gary
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PostPost by: Chancer » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:44 pm

You are all a bunch of anoraks :roll: :roll: :roll: :cry: :cry:

However a great source of info and I appreciate each and every one of you :D

Anoraks are infinitely more appealing than bonnet polishers, - you need to be a 7 owner to get that one :oops:
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PostPost by: Mazzini » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:51 pm

Chancer wrote:You are all a bunch of anoraks :roll: :roll: :roll: :cry: :cry:

However a great source of info and I appreciate each and every one of you :D

Anoraks are infinitely more appealing than bonnet polishers, - you need to be a 7 owner to get that one :oops:


Not an anorak, but a trainspotter.
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PostPost by: nigelrbfurness » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:52 pm

The Carrello repeaters pictured are identical with those on my 1976 Jensen GT - so Richard Appleyard or Cropredy Bridge Garage or the other Jensen specialists might be able to help you there. My 68/9 S/E (8113 - must be one of the earliest, if not the earliest, S4/SE - now there's a challenge to the anoraks) has had Lucas L734 repeaters as long as I've had it and is from 1982. My 1970 S4/SE (0027G) has the Sparto type, but I have a pair of genuine Spartos and the base is black, not chrome, otherwise they appear to be identical.

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PostPost by: Mazzini » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:01 pm

Just to be difficult Carello changed the design of the repeater over the course of the units life.

I believe reproduction units are currently available, so that should give us something new to argue about :)
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PostPost by: nebogipfel » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:47 pm

I note this one has turned up on Ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LOTUS-ELAN-OR ... 2c64ca5e42

This whole repeater question is a bit confusing. I have always thought that the Sparto type replaced the Lucas units later in Elan production presumably because they were cheap and nasty (which IMO they are) but now it seems there is more than one Sparto design? I always assumed that the Sparto units were an aftermarket accessory to allow owners to retro fit the then fashionable repeaters and were not OE fitted by anyone (except Lotus of course) but that could easily be a mistaken assumption on my part. :)

The Sparto's look nicer from a reasonable distance because they are small and neat but the Lucas units are a far better made lamp.

Until this thread I was unaware that Carello repeaters were ever fitted. With all due respect to owners of Elans fitted with them I think they look wrong. I think the design looks too Italian, too angular and doesn't reflect the shape of the car if you follow my drift.

Were they fitted around the same time as +2's had Italian (Carello?) rear light units and hence sourced from the same place I wonder?

There is much to discover about the Elan history methinks :wink:
John

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