Lotus Elan

rear windscreen seal

PostPost by: FEDUP » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:58 pm

Hello all.
Could do with some advice in the procees of fitting rear screen on 1969+ 2s. Have purchased a ready to fit rear screen seal from susan miller but this seems to small the mitred corners have started to split and the seal barely covers the edge of the glass. I then decided to purchase 4 meters of rubber seal from p mattys roy in parts said they used a larger cross section rubber moulding and on collection the rubber was larger in cross section and depth .
The question i have is when you make the seal up what do you use as a template do you make the seal to fit the glass or the apperture . Also has any body recently fitted a rearscreen and could offer some advice in the best methods and also the pitfalls.
regards ian.
FEDUP
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 58
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Location: WOLVERHAMPTON

PostPost by: nhhiker » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:08 pm

Ian
I fitting the Susan Miller rubber this summer to my '69 +2. It fit, just. The lower corners did just start to come apart. I used black silicone sealer to seal it up. Yes, it looks small but will work. I would of liked to see another 1/2 inch longer on the lower lip. The lower corners can be rounded more that the Susan Miller part. I would just use the window as the template. Fit the rubber on the window and cut it in one piece. If you cut it to make corners, use Super Glue to put it together again. (They use this to put o rings together!) The rubber lips on both gaskets will bridge the gaps at the corners. If you would feel better put some black silicone in the corners.
I used plenty of tire rubber lube (the kind you mount tires with). Fit the rubber in the window hole, set the window in with the lower end into the channel. Add lube around the rubber, using a plastic lever (may try tire levers for bicycles). Bring the rubber over the window edge. Go slow. Work one side than the other so the window stays centered. Work your way around, going back and forth between the sides, pushing the window into the channel. You will need to push the window around some to get it to center. I used the BMC tool that opens the center up, allowing you to push in the filler. Use the lube again.

I have done this a number of times. Good luck.

Bill
nhhiker
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 64
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Location: NH, USA

PostPost by: oldokie » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:39 pm

Loctite 404 is the 'super glue' I use for 'rubber'. I use a bit of sash cord in the channel along with the lube (Dawn dish soap and water), leave the ends of the cord hanging out where you want to start the glass, apply light pressure to the glass as you pull the cord out it pulls the lip up over the glass. I have found it best to have a friend push on the glass so I can pull both ends at once. BTW, the colder the rubber the harder it is to work with it.
Gene
oldokie
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 194
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Location: southerncal

PostPost by: RichC » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:24 pm

hmmm . yes I've just noted how tiny the susan miller rubber is now that i've pushed it onto the body. i did so in order to cut the mitres in the bottom corners.... I think this is the only way to cut the mitres as the join has to take into consideration the convex bow in the window aperture. I understand superglue is the way to go, is that right?

Having already replaced the +2 rooflining I note the rear screen rubber doesn't cover the big overlap of 1cm i used and i wonder if the Paul Matty type rubber mentioned below is the same as the Susan Miller one or bigger ? would be nice if it was bigger i think ....

just ordered the windscreen rubber tool from Frost restorers website ready for the job next weekend .
I have some nylon cord somewhere i need to find . Swarfega used to be used as lubricant back in the 70's when i last did anything like this ... is there a more effective trick nowadays?
any tips, as always , from those who have 'been there before' are welcome.
RichC
User avatar
RichC
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 855
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Location: Tendring Essex

PostPost by: EPC 394J » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:14 am

Very interested in this topic, as it's a job I will be doing myself in the next few weeks.

Am I correct in thinking no sealant is required in the channels between the glass and rubber, and body and rubber? Only in any joins in the rubber, at mitred corners? (Though I think I've read someone else's preferred option is one single join at centre bottom of the screen?)

Any other tips/info/pictures would be incredibly helpful.

Regards

Andy
Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?

Plus 2S

BLL 315H in white.
EPC 394J
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 186
Joined: 07 Feb 2014
Location: Caistor, Lincolnshire

PostPost by: mbell » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:48 am

Will also be doing this in near ish future with Sue Miller seal. Original seal has dried out and shrunk leaving a gap at the top. Not looked at new seal in detail yet, think it's bigger than the current one thou.

The seal has to be mitred in the corners on +2 because of the angle being too tight. I wouldn't try fit it by bending the seal around the corners.
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
mbell
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1674
Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Austin, TX (UK Ex-pat)

PostPost by: KevJ+2 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:04 am

I fitted a lot of these type of windscreens and surrounds in the early eighties and the one important thing I learned was to always cut at any joint about half an inch longer, then attach at the joint and push the hump of rubber back in from the joint. This way, when you come to inspect your lovely work the next day, it won't have shrunk back leaving nice new gaps :D
KevJ+2
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 819
Joined: 23 Aug 2013

PostPost by: RichC » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:18 pm

Well the windscreen tool I ordered last Sunday never came so I had to ring them and reorder. I'm hoping it arrives tomorrow. I got some loctite 460 in the post today for the mitre joints . Will keep you posted with progress.
User avatar
RichC
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 855
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Location: Tendring Essex

PostPost by: KevJ+2 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:58 pm

Fitted mine on Wednesday...not half as difficult as the front screen.
Fitted the rubber from corner over top to other corner, then cut and super glued in the bottom length. Gunned in window sealant around outside gap (go easy around the top or you'll get it on the headliner!) and also into windscreen channel. Fit glass using nice strong nylon round edged 'chisel'. Put fairy liquid into 'chrome' insert channel and over the gap and use 'diamond' shaped tool to fit insert. Job done :D
Amazing how it transfroms the car into a real work in progress, now onto the interior trim and doors :roll:
KevJ+2
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 819
Joined: 23 Aug 2013

PostPost by: RichC » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:15 pm

sounds very sensible Kev . will try and replicate .
User avatar
RichC
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 855
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Location: Tendring Essex

PostPost by: TeeJay » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:29 pm

I am also very interested in this thread, very timely. :)

I decided to complete my interior prior to fitting the front and rear screens, i.e. new wiring harness, new headlining, new felt and carpets, although both seats are still to be fitted.

Found it interesting re the smaller cross section of the rear screen rubber, so had to check who I purchased mine from.
Purchased the rubber and infill from Sue Miller, but shocked that it was as long ago as July 2013. But I did cut mine to fit some months ago, + 12mm in each corner as I had also read about the age shrinkage.

Kev thanks for the tips, like Rich, I will follow your technique. :D

Kev for interest, can you confirm where you purchased your rear screen rubber. :?:

My front screen rubber was bought off eBay, again back in July 2013, on delivery I checked the cross section with my original and it was a perfect match. Big sigh of relief.

What I did not check was the cross section of my rear, so I will check that tomorrow, as I still have the old original.

I?ve got some plastic tools for fitting the rubber, but need to get the infill tool as illustrated in the Workshop manual.

Windscreen Strip Tool P36.pdf
(429.87 KiB) Downloaded 188 times

Rear Screen P37.pdf
(525.68 KiB) Downloaded 167 times

Rear Screen P38.pdf
(480.62 KiB) Downloaded 174 times
Trevor
1968 Elan +2 50/0173
User avatar
TeeJay
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 509
Joined: 30 May 2007
Location: Ranton, Nr Stafford. UK

PostPost by: RichC » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:46 pm

The tool I got from frosts was **** and missing the small diamond. It's going back in Monday's post.
Just can't get the infill to stay in the rear rubber.
On the plus side we have glued the mitres and also glued the join in the front rubber after having pushed the rubber on the body. Tomorrow we plan to take the front rubber off the sides and top, fit it round the glass which we'll seat in the bottom rubber. There is a cord already in place for us to try to pull the rubber through the aperture .
On the plusplus side we got the engine up and running for the first time since the crash in Aug 2014, got the dash and interior in and bled the brakes, so mot not far away!
User avatar
RichC
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 855
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Location: Tendring Essex

PostPost by: KevJ+2 » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:47 pm

Trevor, I got both my surrounds and inserts from SJ Sportscars. All good.
Rich, I've never used the cord system as I don't think you need to. If you gun in sealant, as you should, before inserting the glass it just makes it a messier job. Just leave your rubber in place, gun in the sealant into the window channel before placing the glass over the surround. Then, drop the bottom of the glass into the bottom channel, checking that it's even at the sides, then tease in the sides then top as you give an occasional thump to bed in the glass. This is why I mentioned the nylon round edged 'chisel' to tease in the glass.
I'm sure you'll be find whichever way you do it as it's not something you can screw up terminally without giving it another go. It's certainly one of the more satisfying jobs to complete!
Kev.
KevJ+2
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 819
Joined: 23 Aug 2013

PostPost by: AHM » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:34 am

I haven't fitted a +2 screen but I have fitted the elan screens and some that are much harder to fit.

The rubber will always pull in on the corners and will shrink, the screen is much smaller than the aperture.

Fit the rubber tight to the aperture and make it longer by an inch or two. It should be difficult to get it to stay put on its own.

For glued joints use loctite 406. Gluing is a one shot job apply the glue and press together hard. Clean any excess glue and misaligned corners with sandpaper.

Fit the seal to the aperture and tape the top and sides to stop it falling in.

Put the middle bottom of the screen in first with the top of the screen tilted away from the car.

Put a couple of old credit cards between the seal and the inside of the screen to guide it on the inside.

Then gradually work the screen into the rubber either side tilting it back as you go. Use a collection of old credit cards and the wire tool to work it in - nothing hard or sharp - if you score the rubber it may tear when you stretch it to fit the filler strip.

Use diluted washing up liquid in a spray for lubricant.

You won't need any sealer unless the rubber is too short.

String is for YouTube videos.
AHM
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1493
Joined: 19 Apr 2004

PostPost by: Hawksfield » Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:46 pm

Hi
Is the early +2 rear screens different to the S 130 as I fitted a new rubber last year from matty's in one piece, it was a fiddle but successful
Regards

John

+2s130 1971
User avatar
Hawksfield
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 387
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Location: Hartlepool Teesside
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests