Foam filling

PostPost by: 1964 S1 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:33 am

My front bumper had a severe crack due to a PO crash up I suppose. I'd put bondo in it, sand, prime, refinish about every two years. But with the expansion and contraction of summer to winters, it always reappeared. So,,,, I scraped out the old foam and sprayed the expanding Home Depot type foam on the inside when I had it off the car, used a knife after it dried and cut off the excess. It worked great, the crack stayed gone for many years.
Were Elan bumpers filled with foam? Would cleaning and refilling with new foam help anything? I've since bought a "new" replacement, it's hollow.
I think a good place for spray foam would be behind the front bumper inside the shell for crash protection, some of these new foams might help in front on collisions. The tricky part is the headlight bucket area.
I've got a removeable hardtop and have thought about using the same stuff inside it. It's missing the headliner so I've got nothing to lose. I was thinking of spraying the stuff on, then taking a trowel and smearing it to a one inch thickness. Sound deadening and strenghthening?
I agree with the others on side intrusions, foam no help. Full roll cage maybe, or turn sharply before impact for "best" results.
Eric
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PostPost by: bengalcharlie » Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:34 am

Hi Mike,

Plenty of replies with different views on the subject, which makes it interesting as always.
Although I have no experience myself with foam filling, My good friend and elite owner Mike Ostrov has experienced this on his elites with good results I believe. I am happy to forward his contact details if you send my a PM. It certainly makes in difference in noise if I remember well what Mike told me but it also should make some difference in making the car stronger. The foam is extremely strong and it is very easy to overfill the cavity and distort the body shell as a result so you have to be carefull.
I am looking forward to finding out your research in this matter. Keep us updated.
Cheers
Robin
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:24 am

bengalcharlie wrote:Hi Mike,

Plenty of replies with different views on the subject, which makes it interesting as always.
Although I have no experience myself with foam filling, My good friend and elite owner Mike Ostrov has experienced this on his elites with good results I believe. I am happy to forward his contact details if you send my a PM. It certainly makes in difference in noise if I remember well what Mike told me but it also should make some difference in making the car stronger. The foam is extremely strong and it is very easy to overfill the cavity and distort the body shell as a result so you have to be carefull.
I am looking forward to finding out your research in this matter. Keep us updated.
Cheers
Robin


Robin

Mike Ostrov had such good results foam filling the Elite that he cut out the fiberglass bacbone and made a "one off" out of the S2 Elite and installed a stretched chassis (an additional 5 inches) out of the Elan. It seems the foam would expand in the sun and contract in the evening distorting the skin of the fiberglass monocoque. As Henry said, we learn by doing. The Elan would not suffer to the extent of Mikes Elite as there are no completely enclosed cavities to fill. Hopefully Mike will read this and ammend the story as I am sure I have some of it wrong.

Gary
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Mike examining 14/1115 - I bought this unidentified Elite roller in Washington state and brought it down to Mike's shop, it took Mike all of 10 minutes to ID the car.
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:38 am

Hi Mike

Seeing you started the topic I was hoping that you had some sort of an update on the foam filling on the plus2 that you were working on. I am not expecting anything conclusive but just gut feel if you carried through with the foaming.

Gary

p.s. I agree with you on the new sill members for the plus2, cheaper to buy than to burn a favor...
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PostPost by: Foxie » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:56 am

After repairing the large amount of circular cracks apparently caused by the pet elephant of the DPO, I found the double skinned bootlid on the +2 greatly strengthened by filling with foam :D
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:17 am

Sean Murray wrote:Mike,

When I did a major body refurbish and respray on my Plus 2 a good few years ago, the boot lid was very flexible and completely covered in circular cracks, resulting, I have no doubt, from occasional use as a park bench. As well as repairing the outer surface, I drilled a series of 10mm holes on the inner skin and injected builders sealing foam. This resulted in an extremely strong boot lid with very little extra weight. I also used this foam to seal around the front wheel arch closings, which vibrated at speed and allowed mud ingress.

Sean Murray


Hi Sean

I read that part before, not sure that the boot lid normally needs any extra strength. This is just another part of the collapsible impact barriers along with the fuel tank and spare tire. The strength needs to be in the solid body structure (maybe fill the boot with 2 pound foam), not in one of the sacrificial crush structures. I?d be worried that the boot lid with its new found strength would pull thought the hinge bolts and come forward through the rear screen and do worse damage to the occupants seated inside the vehicle.

Gary
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PostPost by: Foxie » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:14 pm

Well, it was completely cracked, and now it's still light as a feather :D

Thanks for your thoughts


garyeanderson wrote:
Sean Murray wrote:Mike,

When I did a major body refurbish and respray on my Plus 2 a good few years ago, the boot lid was very flexible and completely covered in circular cracks, resulting, I have no doubt, from occasional use as a park bench. As well as repairing the outer surface, I drilled a series of 10mm holes on the inner skin and injected builders sealing foam. This resulted in an extremely strong boot lid with very little extra weight. I also used this foam to seal around the front wheel arch closings, which vibrated at speed and allowed mud ingress.

Sean Murray


Hi Sean

I read that part before, not sure that the boot lid normally needs any extra strength. This is just another part of the collapsible impact barriers along with the fuel tank and spare tire. The strength needs to be in the solid body structure (maybe fill the boot with 2 pound foam), not in one of the sacrificial crush structures. I?d be worried that the boot lid with its new found strength would pull thought the hinge bolts and come forward through the rear screen and do worse damage to the occupants seated inside the vehicle.

Gary
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PostPost by: cabc26b » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:18 pm

Hey Gary - you can add Bob Akins old elite race car to the list of foam filled Elite's, don't know if he suffered the same problem as Mike. BTW the car is for sale ( still) appears that they keep raising the price in a effort to sell it....

G
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:10 pm

Sean Murray wrote:Well, it was completely cracked, and now it's still light as a feather :D

Thanks for your thoughts


garyeanderson wrote:
Sean Murray wrote:Mike,

When I did a major body refurbish and respray on my Plus 2 a good few years ago, the boot lid was very flexible and completely covered in circular cracks, resulting, I have no doubt, from occasional use as a park bench. As well as repairing the outer surface, I drilled a series of 10mm holes on the inner skin and injected builders sealing foam. This resulted in an extremely strong boot lid with very little extra weight. I also used this foam to seal around the front wheel arch closings, which vibrated at speed and allowed mud ingress.

Sean Murray


Hi Sean

I read that part before, not sure that the boot lid normally needs any extra strength. This is just another part of the collapsible impact barriers along with the fuel tank and spare tire. The strength needs to be in the solid body structure (maybe fill the boot with 2 pound foam), not in one of the sacrificial crush structures. I?d be worried that the boot lid with its new found strength would pull thought the hinge bolts and come forward through the rear screen and do worse damage to the occupants seated inside the vehicle.

Gary


Hi Sean

I guess I have an opinion, just like everyone and I am not bashful about expressing it :) . I have a couple of good friends that have been doing fiberglass for 40 odd years and when I need questions answered I ask. Folks don't have to agree on anything I say (don't even need to read it) but its good to get both sides to a story. I 1973 I worked for Boston Whaler (boats with fiberglass bottom and top skins filled in the molds with foam) and they were engineered for that kind of construction. The elan and plus2 were not. These boats are unsinkable and rugged and a good application for the technology. Elan's and Plus2's were not designed for this, your boot pannel is most likely very stiff and rugged, the elephant could now most likely sit upon it and cause no further damage. maybe you did this before ebay was around but I would think with the number of plus2's broken up that a replacement panel may have been a better way to go.

anyway, your welcome
Gary
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