Lotus Elan

Foam filling

PostPost by: types26/36 » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:30 am

archigator wrote:Apparently seperated tail lamps are NOT exclusive to the S1, as your S2 obviously has seperated tail lamps as well..


Gary, yes that is quite correct, as from memory the Robinshaw book says the first approx 250 S2's had many S1 parts including the rear lights,small front brake calipers,rear disc's with different PCD and the larger brake and clutch pedals, these cars are sometimes refered to as the S1.5's. The reason I think that car is an S2 is that I tried to blow up the picture and I think that is an "S2" badge on the rear which the S1 did not have.
Brian
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:29 am

Hi Brian

I magnified the the photo with the plate ending in 9C and saw the same thing, looks like "S2". The Robinshaw/Ross book says "new rear lamp cluster at 4127. I have a pair of S1 1/2 26/4020 and 26/4045, both of them US models with a pair of L691 lamps on each side and the center reflectors in the middle. I don't think there much difference in the early S2's up to 4109 from the S1's other that the full width dash. Looking at the "9C' photo magnified you can see the steering shaft still attached to the steeting wheel. There looks to be a "world champion 1963" badge on the wing too, parts book says S2 but who knows.
I wonder whats the story behind the other reg # YEE7 of the first photo posted.

Gary
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PostPost by: archigator » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:34 pm

I wonder whats the story behind the other reg # YEE7 of the first photo posted.


It's unclear if the license in the video is YEE7 or YFE7. One conjecture is that YFE7 can be construed to mean "Wifey 7," a possible reference to 7 Beatle wives. Who knows? :)

Gary
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PostPost by: Frank Howard » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:11 pm

types26/36/74 wrote:
garyeanderson wrote: I thought that Brian Jones drown in a swimming pool, ruled accidential. Gary


I think that is true but I saw a program that said the "builder"on his death bed had confessed to killing Jones


Gary, I thought the same thing you did until I saw the video that Brian referred to. It's called "Stoned". It was made in 2005 and I have to warn you, it's a low budget movie complete with bad acting however, it did clear up the mystery for me.

As far as the lack of Lotus content goes, here's some. Today I did something I have never done before. I drove the Elan to the parts store (through the rain) to pick up brake pads for the minivan. I've never driven the car on New Year's Eve. While Colorado is experiencing their second blizzard, we have had a total of 1/2" and it left long ago. I did get the chance to test the wipers though and they work a treat. During the electrical rebuild, I cleaned and lubricated the motor and the cable while I reversed the park position at the same time. The conversion to an alternator didn't hurt either. The wipers actually have two speeds now and there is a noticable difference between them (the speeds, not the wipers!) Believe it or not, the fast speed is quite fast.
Frank Howard
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:02 pm

Hi Frank

We finally got some of the white stuff, had a dusting snow that melted when it hit the gound. It then turned to rain and stoped, the wind picked up and got cold, 25F over night and I woke up to a couple of fist sized chunks of salt in my front yard and the streets white as can be. Lotus Season is over for the year.
As far as the topic that has been discussed about foam filled cavities, I wish I could think of something positive about it but I can't. If I went to look at a Elan for sale that had this done I would walk away real fast. It wasn't that foam wasn't around in Hickmans and Chapman's time, look at the front and rear bumpers/fenders on the S1-S4. The were way ahead of there time. I'll take their engineering talents over folks that want to experement.

Too all, have safe and great New Year

Gary
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PostPost by: Garibaldi » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:05 pm

mikealdren wrote:Has anyone tried foam filling any fibreglass cavities on an Elan or +2? The idea is that it might:
1. Improve safety in a crash
2. Reduce noise/drumming of panels
3. Reduce water leaks

Comments?
Mike.


Mike,
I can't add much to the conversation except to say that if you're an NVH engineer you know far more about the subject than I. One concern I would have with your idea of using foam is more with the type you use. The rigid foam-in-a-can used for insulating houses, when applied in a closed space can add so much pressure to the space that windows, for instance, will be impossible to open. I have personal experience with this. There is a type of foam which doesn't harden. It is this type which is recommended for cavities with no openings.

I can also recommend without cavil doing a search for "soundproofing" or "sound deadening" on www.corvetteforum.com . There are pages of information from a very long discussion on how to improve the NVH of a Corvette C5. A consensus opinion was derived and I think it provides a textbook example of a very effective DIY solution to the problems you're addressing.

The liquid sound deadener is available at McMaster-Carr (do they have a UK branch?) and is sold under the brand eDead and found on the Elemental Designs web site. It is very heavy. Three gallons would add, I think, about 40 lbs to the car, if that is an issue for you.

There is also a type of bituthane ice and rain shield sold in the US as Peel 'n' Seal (in 6", 12", and 18" widths, I believe) which provides mass loading and, when installed in strips, raises the resonance pitch of panels.

In short, what you're thinking of doing has been done many times by high end car audio installers and Corvette owners (myself included). Now would also be a good time to address any radiant heat issues with a product called Reflectrix, which is a closed-cell foam with aluminium foil on both sides. It is easily affixed with 3M spray adhesive and reduces exhaust, engine, transmission heat very well.

Hope this helps; you get my vote of confidence to do exactly what you asked about, just watch out for foam that will expand and explode your fiberglass body!

GP :wink:
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PostPost by: mikealdren » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:23 am

Garibaldi,
Thanks for your thoughts, expansion damage is definitely one of my conerns. I am looking at open sections at the moment and I will experiment before taking any dangerous actions.
I've got my +2 stripped out to a bare shell and I'm now seeing a lot of different damage over the years, especially star crazing and damage from panels being 'leaned on'. I expect that foam filling would be very useful here (along the lines of Sean's bootlid).
I plan to start with the wheelarches which are susceptible to stone damage but are not closed sections and shouldn't be damaged by expansion. Gentle pressure shows how flexible these areas are. It should also be reversible!
The rearmost panel between the rear lights is also quite flexible, foam should help stiffen this.
I'll go carefully, a step at a time although Sean's bootlid expeience shows that closed sections are possible.
The various specialist paints in the US are very interesting but, so far, I haven't found them in the UK. Sarto's photo looks great and I expect it would also help prevent water leaks. I've found and sealed and loads of holes in the cabin from carpet fixings and drain holes to unexplained holes drilled over the years. It will be a while before I have the car up and running and know how successful I've been but I'll keep posting on how I get on.
Mike
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PostPost by: Garibaldi » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:13 pm

mikealdren wrote:Garibaldi,
-----SNIP-------
The various specialist paints in the US are very interesting but, so far, I haven't found them in the UK.
------SNIP-----------
Mike


Everything you need is available in the UK from:

http://www.e-dead.com/

GP
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PostPost by: mikealdren » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:27 pm

Garibaldi,
many thanks for the link and E-dead are quite close to me so I'll contact them asap. As usual, of course it's much more expensive here than in the US!
Mike.
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PostPost by: berni29 » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:38 am

Hi

I crashed my +2 into a slate embankment nose first a few years back, and both myself and my wife did not suffer any injury at all. The nose collapsed back as far as the front wheels. It looked bad I must say, and was the end of the car. In a steel car it would have been a heavy impact.

Berni
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:50 pm

A couple years have passed since this topic was started. Non too many folks go back and read about the past on this forum so I thought a ttt would help. There are several topics as usual but all are relevant today. So has any one done any more with Foam Filling there Elan's or Plus 2's?
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:00 pm

Hi Gary, At the start of this topic I was unaware of foam that could give added strength.
I have been working with liquid foam insulations in our stud-less hollow wall construction. Look at Icynene and go through all of the different applications. http://www.icynene.com/products/ they have a softer sponge cake like spray foam and I think they have a harden closed cell foam. It take spray equipment but they do have a can type for smaller areas.
Demilec is another manufacturer and they have a rigit closed cell foam. http://www.demilecusa.com/Default.aspx

I have seen testing using the stiff spray foam, 1 1/2 inch thick up against plywood and a 2x4 was shot at it and it did give some penetration protection. I will continue to look for that site. Google foam insulation and it is there somewhere.

We needed 100% ECO friendly, fire protection with no killing off gases.

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PostPost by: JJDraper » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:46 pm

Again off topic, but given some of the earlier comments about Brian Jones...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/8229478.stm

Spooky
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PostPost by: john122S » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:20 pm

I have seen testing using the stiff spray foam, 1 1/2 inch thick up against plywood and a 2x4 was shot at it and it did give some penetration protection.

Perhaps we can start a new thread on How to Build a Bullet-Proof Elan? Woven Kevlar instead of fiberglas mat?
Cheers, John
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:03 am

Bullet proof is not what the Elan needs. The 30 mph barrier crash is a pretty good demonstration of its crash worthiness. Its the Side impact and footwell protection that needs addressing and there are methods of dealing with that. I have picked up a couple of crash victims (Elans, not people) in the past and from what I have seen the fiberglass shell does its job very nicely. Both were hit hard in the front at a small offset angle and the shells are broken in many places dispersing the impact. The Elan understeers at the limit and several of my purchases show this. It seems that you just need to look out for the other guy pulling out of side streets or running stop signs to be safe. The other thing that the Elan has going for it is there isn't a lot of mass to decelerate in a crash.

Gary

p.s. - there seems to be some new folks on the forum and its good to get this out in the open so folks can think about what they are driving around in.
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