New sills before body removal, or after?

[NedK]

Hello

I'm approaching body-off time in my Plus 2S restoration. The sills seem to be totally rotten, and I was planning to replace anyway. I realise that sills should be set with the body on the chassis.

My question is about the right order to do things:
- should I put new sills in before lifting the body off, to support the lift and prevent body damage?
- or lift the body off anyway, and fit the new sills once I'm sure the chassis is straight and square and the body is replaced?

How much does a Plus 2 body twist when being lifted? Enough to crack nice new paintwork?

Many thanks for your help
Ned

[wotsisname]

Hi Ned, I think there was a discussion on this within the last month on here so you might find the answer there... Unfortunately I can't remember the topic title.

I may not have done the correct thing, but... I fitted the new sills (spyder type) before removing the body. I only fitted the interior plates at this point & didn't drill through the lower edge until after the paint was done.

[KevJ+2]

Hi Ned, fitting the sills was the very first job I did and I used Spyders galvanised units. Very good fit and came with all the fittings. It takes a bit of pushing and flexing of the outer sill and I wouldn't like to have done it with a new paint job.
It also alowed me to lift the body with confidence that the middle woudn't sag, it's quite a span between the wheel arches so I think there is more advantage to fitting them first.
Kev.

[gus]

IIRC the sills are difficult to get past the hubs so it is good to have at least that apart before fitting them

its been thirty years tho..............

[stugilmour]

I agree it is best to do the sills first. My sills had been replaced by the previous owner prior to me removing the body, so for me it was already decided.

I used the sill jack points to hold the body on a cart fabricated from square tubing and pre-threaded ready-rod. We actually moved the body to and from the shop with the cart. We used four jacks to lower the body in to position on the frame. Having confidence in the strength of the sills was essential with approx 300 lb present at the rear jacking points. With new rails the jack load is taken up on steel rail holes rather than on the fiberglass bolt lip or the body floor, which are both pretty weak for full weight. Any incidental paint damage on the sill bolting lip can be covered with black undercoat after the body is safely back in position.

I think Randy (Sea Ranch) recently did his sills and could comment on the amount of body flex present without the new rails in place; I expect it is substantial. Even with good rails in place the door can be difficult to open if only one jacking point is up in the air; interestingly same thing happens on my Esprit.

HTH

Stu

[NedK]

Thanks to all! Lots of very helpful advice, as always.
I will order new sills and install before removing the body.
All the best
Ned

[Sea Ranch]

Yup. Sills first.

Here's something to consider: removing OR reinstalling the sills when the body shell is off the chassis is easy. BUT, you never want to be changing sills when the body is off the chassis, as this will lead to inaccurate installation and goofed up door apertures and door fit, not to mention twist in the shell front to rear.

Here's the kicker: if, then, you want to re and re the sills while shell is on the chassis, you will have to flex out the fiberglass sill for the metal member to come out/go back in. Do you want to flex the fiberglass AFTER you've done bodywork and paint, or BEFORE? Answer is clear here.

You could reason that the sills could be re and re-ed while the shell is on the chassis but without the suspension installed, but who would do a body-off rebuild and not do the suspension till the shell is back on?

Only proper way, then, is to do the sills first, while the whole car is on the ground, on it's wheels and tires. Especially if the ride height is even (doesn't have to be the final height you're looking for after the rebuild) and the car is sitting nice and square, etc.

Further, when the car is sitting level and even, make sure to support the floor right at sill edge, middle of door opening, with blocks underneath, so that when you pull out the old sill member (one side at a time), the door aperture definitely does not change. Then when the new one goes in, you can drill the holes and bolt it up with confidence, knowing that side is exactly as it started out.

Of course, if the sills are so rotten that even the seatbelt attachment - backing plates are no longer attached to the inner sill member, then you might be wondering about the shape of the door aperture to begin with!

Tip: the lower edge of the door opening/aperture (that nice flat horizontal piece of fiberglass) is supposed to be that: dead straight. Make it so, if it's not

Good luck. Not so bad a job. I used SJ Sportscars stainless sill members. They're excellent and would recommend them. Factory style, high quality build and they'll never rust. Period.

Randy

[Matt Elan]

Hi Ned

Regarding the question of fitting the sills to a body on a chassis or off; I've not got a choice - its going to be sills in when the body is off.... AFAIK my +2S body had been 'resting' on a rotted out chassis for many years before I lifted it off and dropped it onto an assortment of tyres! I'll use the door shuts to sort the sill fit; just ordered a set from SJS and will have fun doing trial fits! As for my white +2, the sills have rotted away (as you saw) so the body will have adopted a 'new' shape anyway - again I'll use door fit to determine their position.
However, all is not lost; as the Plus 2 has a roof the shell even without a chassis is pretty strong and rigid and I suspect that any body distortion will in fact be minimal and reversible.

[wotsisname]

I agree with that.
The contents of the sill area on my car were collected up using a dust pan and brush.. I can't imagine they were doing much in the way of providing rigidity for some years prior to that.
that said, I'd probably follow Randy's approach if I did it again.. leaves no doubts in your mind.

[shaun]

Hi Ned fitted mine before body is dropped on checked the door amatures and they look good ,but I've got a completely bare shell to start with so minimum weight

[NedK]

As always, thanks to all for your advice. I will order and fit new sills, in situ, using the doors as a guide.
All the best
Ned

[wwpete]

I picked up a rotten +2 convertible with sills that were dust. On the chassis the doors fit perfectly. When I took the body off it distorted but it was expected being a drop top. I have had it on and off the chassis a few times and it always sits the same. When you take the inside plates off you see that the bolt holes in the glass are quite large which would indicate a far amount of adjustment is allowed for, when setting the sills. My opinion is it really doesn't make a difference since it will take some fiddling to either way. I certainly would not paint it until the body, sills and doors are set.
Bill

[EPC 394J]

Spydercars replaced my sills whilst car (without chassis) was supported on a lift.

I did ask if it would produce any distortion? They said not. I have no idea if they are right or wrong, but I figured they should know? Doors are fine.

Certainly would have made the job easier?

[NedK]

Quick update and a couple of questions...

My existing sills were dustpan and brush, as others have commented.

The new ones from SJ look very well made from stainless steel. The inner plates seem a little thinner gauge than the old ones - but the old ones are so rusty that who knows what the original gauge was! The M10 bolts supplied are certainly much smaller than the originals, but that shouldn't be much of a concern.

The hardest bit of removing the old rubbish was grinding out (with a Dremel) each individual nut'n'bolt, on both sides. In doing so, I nicked the outside of the fibreglass a few times, so have rubbed everything down prior to filling and smoothing off.

After trial-fitting the new sill on one side (while the chassis is on axle stands), the straight edge of the sill shows that there is considerable sag (about 1/2" in the middle) of the outer skin. I've never thought that the door fitted that well, but it touches the aperture at the bottom/middle and also fits neatly into the rebated bit at the top of the door. i.e the door fits into the hole! So... if I gently jack up the middle of the outer sill, to make the fibreglass neatly in line with the s/s sill straight edge, then it will definitely mean the door won't shut at all, banging into the outer skin.

What am I missing...?

I will put the wheels back on (and the front hub, which I had to remove to get the sill in) and see how it sits then. Perhaps that will straighten things out!

More to follow...

Ned

[KevJ+2]

Ned, you say you trial fitted the new sill - do you mean drilled and bolted up or just placed it inside?
I jacked up the sill with a strong length of timber in line with the sill when fitting. If you just jack the middle, I think you are in danger of the sill flexing.
You should be able to fit the new units into the rear without removing the front hub. Just a thought.
Good luck.
Kev.