Help!! - assembling doors

[jono]

Well, I have feared this job for a long time but finally grasped the nettle last night! It?s proving as frustrating as I had anticipated

My plus 2 came with the doors completely dismantled. I have the following constituent parts:

Door shells
Door frames
New 1/4 light channels (stainless remakes courtesy of someone who used to post on this forum)
1/4 light glass and rubber
New rubbers for the main windows
Windows glass with the galvanised channels/guides attached
Winding mechanism
Motors
Various small bits and bobs
Rods and plastic clips for the door locks

I have had the frames re chromed at Derby Plating (top job, top price!) and after much swearing and cut fingers managed to get one 1/4 light fitted last night together with the new channel (much fettling with angle grinder later). I am going to glaze in the 1/4 light to the new channel with Dum Dum as it won?t be seen. I think the new chrome made the ? lights more difficult to fit as they apply a heavy copper plate prior to chroming which I think has made the recess tighter.

Hereafter I am pretty much stumped as to what goes where. I can manage with the main glass and channels I think, as it seems pretty obvious, but it what happens down below so to speak that I need help with.

I traced an old thread on here which may have assisted however all of the photos posted have now been removed and it?s photos which would really help.

So?has anyone recently completed this task and could they take me through it and, in particular could they post up some piccies?

What I am also interested in is how much of the frame and glass assembly can be built up in isolation from the door shell and what can only be fitted once the frame has been installed.

Many thanks in anticipation.

Jon

[tinker]

Hi Jono, how much was it to get the frames rechromed,as i am looking to get mine done, good luck with the re-assembly. Tony.

[jono]

Anyone?

[Baggy2]

Hi Jono,
It was about 20 years ago I did mine so I fail the 'recently' part of your spec. There are two things I would pass on:-
1 ) I used black silicon rubber where you are proposing to use Dum Dum. This has been perfect where I think DumDum would tend to dry out / shrink / generally move about.
2) I recall there was an aluminium strip with 'fur' on it that the glass slides against in the top of the door. I fixed this with short self tappers. Unfortunately they were not short enough and the door glass got scratched as it raised and lowered so that's something to look out for.
Not the comprehensive guide you were seeking but a couple of tips that may help.
Good Luck
Baggy

PS Since posting the above I have been thinking - perhaps it was not self tappers but little spring clips with sharp points on. What ever it was be careful to keep any potential scratch hazards away from the glass.

[gerrym]

Jon, when I dismantled by doors (33 years after being built), the qtr lights were sealed by the original mastic, basically Dum Dum.

When I get around to the rebuild, I will use a modern automotive sealant which remains flexible, ie U-Pol Tigerseal or similar acrylic sealant (this is basically what the windscreen fitters use). Silicon sealant IMHO belongs in the engine, bathroom or kitchen.

To rebuild the door, suggest you start by making a frame with a curved back sheet against the door skin. This will hold it securely without damage.

Then do a dummy build of the door without the heavy wiper motor and main glass but including the hinge pin, bushes, hinges. The door will be much easier to handle and you will be able to see where everything goes. When you are happy that you can get the frame in, the door to shut properly (ie the frame is in the right place etc, then mark the position of the frame, strip it down again and add the motor and glass

Regards
Gerry

[Gordon Sauer]

Well I'm about where you are, got them rechromed, about $130 each, returned the window channel to the frame, then started with the quarter windows--very tricky but done, don't think I'd want to use dumdum although it goes on to fill the area after the frame is all set. Would think it could move around perhaps, shrink, guess that Colin would have done that (cheaper) if it made sense. Put the window glass in and set the frame down in the door. Oh and I added sound deadening sheet on the inside of the door, outside skin. And that's as far as Ive come although looks like you slip the motor up in the opening, engage the roller in the slide bar of the window (which I cleaned and greased) and then bolt the frame/motor to the door where the holes are. Then there are brush strips that go nearest the glass, self tap screws and then the rubber strip that goes between the door shell and that flimsy chrome strip that's part of the window frame. Finally, there are clips to self tap into the door skin upper most edge which the finishing chrome strip snaps onto. So that's where I'm headed. And all of this is with the door on the car and already adjusted but can still raise a bit if motor and all gives it some sag as have left adjusting points accessible. Gordon Sauer

[jono]

Cheers guys for all your useful pointers.

Would anyone be able to post up a picture showing the arrangement at the junction between the glass and door shell - a section showing how the seals interface with the metalwork of the frame would be most useful?

Re Dum Dum, point taken however this stuff is so easy to work with and should stay sufficiently compliant to see out my interest in the car and it was good enough (cheap enough?) for Chunky! Tigerseal et al is great but once it's set that's it - I find it great for bonding and permanent joints but not very forgiving (especially on your hands!)

Keep up the comments chaps, I am now starting to get a feel for what needs to be done.

Jon

[Gordon Sauer]

Here is a pic of door sandwich with separate pic of self tapper, about 1/2" long that in mine looks like screws through clip, then through fiberglass, through rubber seal and catches a couple threads in that flimsy strip of window frame that is just before the glass (these are how all the holes in my original pieces line up). The inside of the flimsy strip carries the fuzzy strip (see pic as showing it has imbedded clips that go in holes in the flimsy metal strip). That is what actually touches the glass as it goes up and down. Then still moving inward past the glass is another fuzzy strip, again held on with clips imbedded clips and then door card overhangs inner door skin. Gordon Sauer

[Gordon Sauer]

Here is another G sauer

[Gordon Sauer]

Here are more

[Gordon Sauer]

Final view Gordon Sauer

[stugilmour]

Nice photo's Gordon. I left all the glass tracks in place and just cleaned things up as the whole job looked so daunting.

Jon, you may have seen some of the following info in previous posts.

I got new door card clips and new plastic sleeves (mouse condoms) from Sue Miller. Several were broken, and the sleeves really needed replacement.

Have a proper panel removal tool / plastic pry bar handy to prevent damage to the door card holes. Other handy tool is a magnetic retrieval stick to get any screws and clips that fall to the bottom of the enclosed door.

The inside door handles I got were not identical to stock, but I modified to work. To get the adjustments to work I found they had to be installed as stock using the three self tapping screws into the three speed nut clips slipped over the fibreglass inner panel. The handle assembly can be trial installed directly on the inside door skin to assist in lining up all the rods.

The motors (sounds like yours are serviceable anyway) are sourced from a 1969 to about 1971 Chevelle; also used on other Chev models of the era. The trick when ordering is Lotus uses them on opposite sides; i.e. the Chev left door motor is fitted in the RHS Lotus door. I was able to order replacements here in Canada through my local parts store with the correct aftermarket part number call-up, so they are now a pretty popular part. Note they come without some of the gears. They were sold as core replacement rebuilds, but I believe Year One has them for more $ without core. The replacement motor is VERY fast and powerful; I replaced my aftermarket blade fuses with auto reset circuit breakers as the fuse will blow easily if you hold the switch down after the window is fully up or down.

The powerful spring on the motor assembly can be rotated and held in place with a screw driver or small rod or nail or nut & bolt. This is needed to get the actuator lever inserted in the track at the bottom of the glass and the motor installed correctly. IIRC the track just friction fits to the base of the glass. Not an issue if you have it all apart, but if disassembling the motor & regulator, this spring is very powerful, so watch the fingers if it is not retained with the temporary bolt. It could also potentially smash the glass. I think you will see what i mean when you get into it; idea is to adjust the window height with the motor until the retaining holes line up, constrain them, and then undo the motor mount bolts to avoid the guillotine effect from the spring.

Outside door handle installation was pretty obvious as I recall. New gaskets available from Sue.

I installed an electric door lock system at the same time. I got my kit from Spyder, although another poster found the same kit available at a popular supplier for about half the cost. I has to drill a few holes into the inside door skin to access the fasteners onto the lock rods.

Rods were a bit of a pain. If missing any retainer clips, I found plastic tie wraps to work well to use as rod guides. Diagram in the parts manual shows these pretty well. Sounds like you have new clips, which is a good idea; pretty delicate after forty years.

Several packing washers are used on (IIRC) the bottom rear frame mounting bolt to change the angle of the frame relative to the door. This is to fit the frame correctly to the door gaskets on the body. Some adjustment may be required to this area after aligning the doors for swing and fit; kind of a last step if you have air leaks at the gasket.

Watch tightening the big Phillips screws holding the door latch mechanisms too tightly; can crush the fibreglass holes pretty easily.

Door catches have lever on them. Get that deal set correctly as it is some sort of child lock out deal.

HTH

[jono]

Many thanks for all your valuable input chaps, especially Gordon for pictures and Stu for his useful comments, I really appreciate you time in responding and think I am now starting to understand the task facing me.

..I will post up some pics of my own as I start to put things together.

Thanks once again, Jon

[alaric]

Wow this is a well timed thread - I'm putting mine back together at the moment too. I took my doors apart about three years ago and have a spare one as a reference. I need a new set of the little clips pictured in Gordon's posts. I did try and get some a while back but failed. Who has them - mine are all rusty and a couple died on dismantling.

I have the driver side back together but have not done the outer trim along the base of the window yet. I'm about to try and put the motor back in - a daunting task I fear.

Sean.

[jono]

Sean - any help?

Jon