Elans Galore - Silverstone Auctions

[innesw]

Upcoming auction at Race Retro by Silverstone Auctions has a large number (7) of elan's listed!
- From the Piddington Collection, Several with notable previous owners.

https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/rac ... 2023-01-17

For the forum's interest.

Cheers,
Innes

[trw99]

Innes, this collection has been discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=52006

Tim

[innesw]

Ahh Rubbish,

I searched for a thread before posting but clearly not hard enough! Will delete.

Innes

[TrevorK]

I have it on good authority that the "Duckworth" Elan is not what it might, at first glance, appear to be.

The story is that a the original car was scrapped. Someone worked out the missing chassis number and "recreated" it from scratch. It was never driven by Keith and didn't exist until relatively recently!

I would suggest any potential buyer does some thorough research.

[elanfan1]

I have it on good authority that the "Duckworth" Elan is not what it might, at first glance, appear to be.

The story is that a the original car was scrapped. Someone worked out the missing chassis number and "recreated" it from scratch. It was never driven by Keith and didn't exist until relatively recently!

I would suggest any potential buyer does some thorough research.

Interesting first post with an identity created for this thread. Trevor you appear to be in the town where the work on the car was done so perhaps have access. I’m genuinely not trying to ‘out’ you I think I’d probably want to conceal my identity posting such a controversial subject. Would it be fair to say you have a more regular user name here? Again not asking what that might be but if you’ve been on this site for quite sometime it is perhaps understandable.

[cliveyboy]

Guide estimates seem to have a hefty premium because of previous owners.
£80 -120K plus 15% buyers premium for an Elan.
I will be interested to see final prices.

[trw99]

TrevorK,

I feel that it is somewhat unfair of you to have made your post on a public forum without having first checked the facts.

I wish to reassure you and all others reading this thread that the Duckworth Elan at auction at Race Retro is indeed the very car gifted to Keith Duckworth. It was invoiced by the factory in February 1968. No Colour Code or Engine No is recorded against the car, which was built up by the factory. This concurs with other cars gifted by the factory. Similarly, there is no dealer name but the first owner is recorded as D. LK. Duckworth (sic). The car was registered in Northamptonshire on 7 Jun 68.

We now come to that part of the story where I suspect some confusion has arisen. Around 2005 the car caught fire and was declared an insurance write-off. However, the fire had taken hold only around the carburetors, the remainder of the car being original. The car was then purchased back from the salvage company by Ken and Neil Myers and stripped, with the intention of a full restoration when funds permitted.

In 2016 the consignor agreed to pay for the restoration and to purchase the car. Once the car had been restored DVLA was approached for a V5, with the help and support of Club Lotus. Even the police confirmed that the identity of the car was legitimate and approved the re-registration. I do not know what more the consignor of the car, the DVLA, the police or Club Lotus could do to confirm the originality of this Elan. In addition, it would be incumbent on the auction house to satisfy themselves as to the legitimacy of this or any other car they put up for public auction.

I hope this puts your mind, as well as those of others, at rest over this matter.

Tim

[samplomp]

Tim (trw99),
Thanks for your clarification! More than clear!
Rgds, Sam.

[innesw]

How do I delete this thread?

Move conversation to here -

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=52053

Innes

[TrevorK]

I have it on good authority that the "Duckworth" Elan is not what it might, at first glance, appear to be.

The story is that a the original car was scrapped. Someone worked out the missing chassis number and "recreated" it from scratch. It was never driven by Keith and didn't exist until relatively recently!

I would suggest any potential buyer does some thorough research.

Interesting first post with an identity created for this thread. Trevor you appear to be in the town where the work on the car was done so perhaps have access. I’m genuinely not trying to ‘out’ you I think I’d probably want to conceal my identity posting such a controversial subject. Would it be fair to say you have a more regular user name here? Again not asking what that might be but if you’ve been on this site for quite sometime it is perhaps understandable.

I used to look at the forum many years ago but I don't think I registered. I am not a regular poster hiding behind a pseudonym.

[TrevorK]

TrevorK,

I feel that it is somewhat unfair of you to have made your post on a public forum without having first checked the facts.
....

In 2016 the consignor agreed to pay for the restoration and to purchase the car. Once the car had been restored DVLA was approached for a V5, with the help and support of Club Lotus. Even the police confirmed that the identity of the car was legitimate and approved the re-registration. I do not know what more the consignor of the car, the DVLA, the police or Club Lotus could do to confirm the originality of this Elan. In addition, it would be incumbent on the auction house to satisfy themselves as to the legitimacy of this or any other car they put up for public auction.

I hope this puts your mind, as well as those of others, at rest over this matter.

Tim

I disagree. I feel that having this information, I was duty bound to post it on here where there was the greatest chance of there being someone who knew the car rather than risking someone buying something that was not what they thought it was or not giving the consignor the chance to reply. I was not a causing the seller of dishonesty, just advising that any potential buyer check the car's provenance.

I am still a little confused as this article https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-11602669/Incredible-classic-Lotus-Elan-collection-set-sell-auction-700k.html says that the seller bought the car in 2014 and the previous owner had it for 39 years. This could fit in with it being Duckworth's as he never sold his cars but not the Ken and Neil Myers having it from 2005 to 2016.

As a piece of trivia, I bought engine oil for my Excel from the company the seller founded.

[Craven]

I think the write up on https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/car ... -700k.html should be read more carefully, where a – is used rather than a , it reads
An S4 Coupe, also a 1968 car,that was given to Keith Duckworth, co-founder of Cosworth Engineering, by Lotus Cars to commemorate the first win by a DFV-engined Grand Prix car at the Dutch GP in 1967 is also available in the collection.
As well as a 1975 Elan Sprint, believed the be the best fixed-head coupe example in the country, that was in the same ownership for 39 years until Mr Norville bought it in 2014.
Also
Finally, this 1975 Lotus Elan Sprint had been retained in one family's ownership for almost four decades before Mr Norville purchased it in 2014. An impeccable example, it should sell for a winning bid of £50,000 - £80,000

[TrevorK]

There's more on these cars in this Autosport nostalgia forum including a picture of the car during restoration. https://forums.autosport.com/topic/2232 ... ry10157694

It confirms the fire story and my ex-colleague also says it has a fuel fire after Keith has sold it and the then owner sent it to Men Myers for restoration. Page 304 of Norman Burr's biography of Duckworth says that the car was destroyed by fire. One question, if the damage was only slight, why were the police involved in verifying the car's identity?

I think the web article just confused things where it says that it has one owner for 39 years. These things were much simpler when we had the green log books with all the previous owner's names in them.

Now, in the classic car world, there are plenty of cars which have been rebuilt from not very much of the original left and these have been accepted as valid examples so it's a question of knowing what you are buying.

I'm not suggesting the seller is trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes as he may not have been aware of the full history.

[trw99]

Hi Trevor,

The vendor is aware of a lot more interesting history of the Duckworth Elan, which he has kindly passed on to me. It allows full verification of the car and its ownership, whereabouts and state throughout it's existence. Nothing of that history that I have been told would give me any doubt as to it's full provenance.

I do not know why the police were involved in the ratification of the restored cars identity, but I am pretty certain it was not for any underhand reason.

The only current mystery concerns the car between the time it came off the production line and it being handed over to Duckworth. In the full auction notes, now available for all the Elans of the collection, it states that Duckworth believed the car to be a prototype Series 4. In fact during this time Lotus termed such cars as development cars. Those few that I have come across, like this one, have either no data in the factory records, or else they have Development Car annotated alongside the Unit No.

We do have photos of the Body No and script 'Show Car' crayoned into the fiberglass on the underside of the roof. These were taken when the car was at the Myers'. My belief is that it would not have been for the 1967 London Motor Show, which in any case was dominated on the Lotus stand by the newly introduced Elan +2. I suspect it more likely that the car may have been prepared for the January 1968 London Racing Car Show, that year called Autorace '68. However, to date I have found no information or photos about which cars were displayed on the Lotus stand then. The dates would then seem to tie in with the invoice of the Duckworth car in Feb 68 and the launch of the Series 4 Elan in Mar 68.

Tim

[Andy8421]

From 'The Times' today. I am afraid it is behind a paywall.

I have the Times app, but I can't forward the story. It is a positive story about Sellers and his passion for the Elan, it also refers to the Piddington Collection and the other Elans for sale.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/comic-peter-sellers-convertible-up-for-120-000-zzb672dw5