Lotus Elan

Elan +2 Drive Shafts for sale

PostPost by: davidwinegar » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:01 pm

I have absolutely nothing against Sue Miller and told her so directly. I DO have a problem with the idiots in this forum and I do have a problem with faulty parts. If she stopped selling them, then I guess there is actually a problem, isn't there? Certainly NOT with my installation as some of you have implied. This is supposed to be a forum to help people not post a load of SH** and bully people.

I DO NOT fix faulty and defective parts. I stated clearly the state of the parts and told those interested that it is their job NOT MINE to fix them. I suspect that Sue Miller found out the products were defective and got a refund from the supplier, so no loss on her part I am sure. It is now only ME that has lost all the time and expense in this and then all the shit I have to put up with you morons.

I am done with this forum and you people - tired of all the snide comments I have gotten here over the years from people that have no interest in supporting people and obviously nothing better to do then cyber bully people.

Last I will comment on this so don't bother - the shafts are sold.
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PostPost by: vernon.taylor » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:46 pm

davidwinegar wrote:I DO have a problem with the idiots in this forum

If you're addressing me publicly, then a public F _ _ K YOU.
davidwinegar wrote: and I do have a problem with faulty parts[/b]. If she stopped selling them, then I guess there is actually a problem, isn't there?

Hence the comments.
davidwinegar wrote: you morons.

Ban in order, Jeff.
davidwinegar wrote:I am done with this forum

Good. You don't have to bother, Jeff.
davidwinegar wrote: tired of all the snide comments I have gotten here over the years

Never had any of those, myself. Maybe my forum conduct.
davidwinegar wrote: Last I will comment on this so don't bother - the shafts are sold.

Still on eBay.

@+

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PostPost by: pauljones » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:36 pm

Just my two pence,

Mine are fine.

Sue is a very loyal supporter of lotus. She does not deserve bad reviews, i understand the original posters views but i can not understand why after a refund you would want to sell on and put other lifes in danger. And then call forum members idiots. You may not agree but if your conscience is clear selling supposedly defective parts that could kill then you dont deserve to be part of this forum.

Paul. A Sue Miller fan. (Who didnt sell me drive shafts untill she was happy with the quality,still working fine too)
Kick the tyres and light them fires...!!!!!!!
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PostPost by: elated » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:20 pm

May i ask that our responsible officers agree to terminate the membership of this unstable, irrational and foul-mouthed poster.
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PostPost by: davidwinegar » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:54 am

Let's set the record straight here...

First, I am selling on parts that need work. Clearly stated in the listing. It is no different than selling any part or car that needs work and maybe unsafe until it is repaired. Is it unethical to sell a car that has not passed MOT? NO, clearly not. It is no different from these parts.

Second, I have been insulted on numerous occasions here and the following should also have their memberships deleted - no need to delete mine as I will never participate here again.

John P Cleg and Vernon Taylor
Insinuating that I am a thief and am stealing the "profits" from Sue Miller. ***I gave Sue Miller ample opportunity to collect these parts from me. I packaged them and had them ready for DHL to pick up. She made NO effort to do so. It is NOT my responsibility to pay again extra to ship them back. She obviously had NO interest in getting them back probably because she did not want to incur the expense of shipping what she knew was a defective part. I am sure she got compensation from the supplier. Again, the only one who is losing out on this is ME. Even if I get a couple of hundred pounds it does not cover the expense in having to do the job twice plus having to purchase another replacement.

Orsom Weels
Stating that I am my mechanic did not properly install them and therefore I am at fault. ***This is just one of many examples over the years of people here claiming that I don't know what I am doing and therefore shouldn't have the "privilege" of owning this car. People who have no idea of the situation, my abilities, or the mechanics that are working with me. Judgemental comments have no place in a forum like this.


Grizzly
Stating that I am selling parts that are stolen and I should "ask for permission" to sell from Sue Miller *** absolutely idiotic. The fact is she sold me a defective part. She took responsibility and refunded my purchase. However she did nothing as a company to find out what was defective. I should ask for permission to sell now products that have sat unclaimed for 4 years??? She abandoned them and legally I am well within my rights to sell them on as they are now my property and not hers.

Jeff Jackson & Elansprint & Pauljones
Implies I am unethical for not fixing the parts before selling them. ***Why on earth is this my responsibility? It is no different than selling a car with no MOT. It was Sue Miller's responsibility to do this before she sold them on to me. I am not a parts manufacturer or a parts dealer. IF I FIX THEM, I THEN BECOME RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM and the lives of those using them. NO WAY am I going to do this. These most likely can be fixed by someone who has the knowledge and abilities. They then can save a significant amount of money.

Jeff Jackson
Claiming I am bad mouthing Susan Miller. ***I did no such thing. Look at my original post. I said not a single bad word about Sue Miller, I only stated the facts of what happened. That is not bad mouthing or in legal terms slander. If you sell defective parts that is just a fact.

Pauljones
Claiming that Sue Miller is beyond making a mistake and that I am again unethical in selling these parts. ***It is great she didn't sell you bad quality parts - shame she didn't do the same in my case. Also a shame she didn't fully test the parts she sold me before shipping them. At the end of the day the company is responsible. It is not the customer who is responsible for having to "fix or troubleshoot" defective parts when purchased new from what is supposed to be a reputable supplier.


Vernon Taylor
You insulted and continue to insult me publicly on this forum. I never asked for your comments or your permission to sell these parts. It is none of your concern. Why you think I or anyone else is interested in your opinion on this subject is beyond me.


Here is the transcript of my conversation with Sue Miller - as you can all see I was more than gracious in this. At the end she never arranged for pickup.


From: Susan Miller <[email protected]>
Date: 14 October 2013 at 17.21.50 GMT+3
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: CV Joints Defective caused Dangerous Grease leak
Reply-To: Susan Miller <[email protected]>



Hello David,
I have today made a refund to your card and will post a proof slip to you.
We are still not sure what has caused such a severe problem- my engineer says that the grease now supplied with the c.v. joint is much more viscous than before so part of the fault may lie there.
I will ask FedEx to collect the driveshafts now they are repacked.
Once again, I express my extreme regret for your trouble.
Best wishes,
Susan Miller

From: David Winegar <[email protected]>
To: Susan Miller <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, 13 October 2013, 14:22
Subject: Re: CV Joints Defective caused Dangerous Grease leak

Hello Susan,

I have the defective driveshafts removed and packaged for pickup. You can arrange for FedEx to pick them up any day this week.

I just checked my back account and do not see a refund of my purchase yet. Are you having some difficulties processing that, or when might I expect the refund? I would appreciate if you would do that right away as this has been an expensive venture for me both in time and money with double the installation costs and a lot of extra work to clean all the grease from the brakes. I enclosed a picture of the brake caliper where you can see all the copious amounts of grease all over them...which would have very quickly become extremely dangerous.

Please let me know about the pickup and the refund ASAP.

David Winegar


On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Susan Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello David
Thank you for your e-mail and for your understanding of my position.
I am investigating what can be the cause of your problem after the former success of the comvertion.
I will ask in the morning if a pick-up by FedEx will be possible, and if it is,you can arrange a suitable date for collection.
I will arrange a refund- if I do not still have your card details I will e-mail again tomorrow.
Best wishes,
Susan Miller


From: David Winegar <[email protected]absolute-north.com>
To: Susan Miller <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, 7 October 2013, 16:08
Subject: Re: CV Joints Defective caused Dangerous Grease leak

Hi Susan,

Thank you. I don't blame you for this... I have only had good experience with you in the past and will continue to use you for other parts needs. But for sure you want to get with the manufacturer and figure out what went wrong here, and In the meantime please do warn any other people that have purchased from the same batch to please watch careful those parts.... Would certainly hate to see someone get seriously injured. I would also be curious to know what went wrong. Are those holes where the grease is spurting supposed to be closed..welded shut or somehow sealed?

I would appreciate if you can do a charge back to my Master Card. I can ship them back to you, but could I get a FedEx pickup for them from you? It will possibly take a couple of weeks, as I need to get a replacement system and then find the time to take them off. But if the weather does not get real cold, I can do it maybe within 2 weeks.

David
Last edited by davidwinegar on Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:22 am, edited 3 times in total.
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PostPost by: pauljones » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:37 am

Im impartial to sides, as I clearly stated in my comments.
My personal point of view is as you have had a complete refund, then you in my opinion should destroy these parts.

I did say i understood your point of view, i also stated Sue does not deserve bad publicity. We all know She takes pride in offering us,lotus enthusiasts, the very best She can. But i agree humans can make mistakes. Her only fault here i see is not collecting the parts of you.

Call me what you like, I got perfectly fine thick skin, and driveshafts that work, also may i add along with countless others.

So perhaps Sue did not meet her high standards this time round,
Perhaps your mechanic didnt install these correctly.
The main thing i see here is that no one got injured and Sue fully refunded you.

I do feel bad for both yourself and Sue but i think her faith in her business by refunding you fully without personally inspecting these parts proves how good she is.

Just cut them up and bin them.
Kick the tyres and light them fires...!!!!!!!
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PostPost by: Orsom Weels » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:31 am

David, your tone has been very abrasive for the majority of your posts in this thread, on top of which you infer that Sue does not care & is not interested in finding out what was wrong.

davidwinegar wrote: If I sound mad, you are damn right I am. I was generous enough to offer that she can get them back and investigate what the problem was, but she did absolutely nothing. Clearly she had no interest in tracking down why this product was defective. Is this a company taking responsibility?


Not surprising that you have ruffled a few feathers.

As I originally said, any other supplier would have insisted that you return the product, at your expense, such that they could then determine the cause of the problem & then decide whether or not to issue a refund. Sue was generous enough to save you that inconvenience & refunded you on your word alone.
Over several years, Sue sold many hundreds of sets of drive shafts, & yours would appear to be unique in suffering the problem you have to such an extent, which leads me to believe that there was something different with your particular fitment. If all the bolts were tightened correctly, could it have been one or more of the legs on your spiders distorted ? Not uncommon & this could distort the adapter plates & lead to the excessive grease leakage you experienced.

In your initial post, you claim to have purchased the shafts & fitted them to your car with little difficulty,

davidwinegar wrote:I bought them in August of 2013. Fitted them to my car with not too much trouble.


Then later you claim to have had a professional mechanic help fit them for you & that it was not an easy job,

davidwinegar wrote: Do you really think that is something anyone would like to do (have you replaced the drive shafts? It is not an easy job) - not to mention I had to pay a professional mechanic


A slight lack of consistency there which makes one wonder which version is true.

If you genuinely believe that these drive shafts are faulty & put you & your sons lives at risk, & that Sue is lucky to have got away so lightly,

davidwinegar wrote: not to mention risking my life and my son's in selling a faulty product. She is damn lucky I didn't end up in a serious accident and having a major lawsuit over this. She was damn lucky to escape with nothing but a refund.


then it doesn't say much about your conscience that you are prepared to sell these on to someone else & potentially risk their lives.

I also note in the transcript of your conversations with Sue on the subject, that she has asked you to arrange a suitable date for collection by FedEx,

davidwinegar wrote: will ask in the morning if a pick-up by FedEx will be possible, and if it is, you can arrange a suitable date for collection.


Did you ever do this ? If you did & they were not collected as arranged, why did you not query this with FedEx or at least follow up with Sue ?
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:40 am

davidwinegar wrote:Let's set the record straight here...

Grizzly
Stating that I am selling parts that are stolen and I should "ask for permission" to sell from Sue Miller *** absolutely idiotic. The fact is she sold me a defective part. She took responsibility and refunded my purchase. However she did nothing as a company to find out what was defective. I should ask for permission to sell now products that have sat unclaimed for 4 years??? She abandoned them and legally I am well within my rights to sell them on as they are now my property and not hers.

David

No i didn't say they were Stolen !! don't try and twist it ...... I have to agree with Orsom Weels, it sounds like Sue refunded you on face value (as she does) and you never gave her a day to arrange pick up, it makes no sense that she would write off Hundreds of pounds worth of parts just like that? whats more likely is she was distracted by her work load waiting for your reply. Have you sent any reminders since 2013 or more importantly contacted her recently with your intention to sell them? (2017)

You bitch and whine about the forum but you forget she is a small family run business that many people on here have a good relation with, she has never been anything but helpful, courteous and trusting often sending parts out before payment has cleared. It sounds like you have taken advantage of her and you wounder why people rip into you?
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PostPost by: davidwinegar » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:52 am

Orson,

Of course my tone got abusive in response to your comments and others that were abusive and insulting. You get back in return what you give out. You and the others have absolutely no right to give your opinions on this as it has nothing to do with you. If you are not interested in buying, explain to me why you think I need to hear your comments and criticisms? What gives you the right Orson? And who cares anyways what your thoughts on this matter are? Who gave you the authority to be "parts police"??????

Have you done the drive shaft conversion or rotoflex replacement? I guess not given your comments. I have replaced rotoflex twice and the conversion twice. I guess I have some damn well earned experience in this. My mechanic has done this 100s of time. It is not intellectually complicated, but it is time consuming and a struggle to get everything out and back in. You again are insulting me that I don't know what I am doing and this is an unfounded and not appreciated and not what the spirit of this forum should be. You have really shown what kind of person you are Orson.

I did contact Sue and said they driveshafts are, I quote from my previous message that clearly you didn't bother to read I have the defective driveshafts removed and packaged for pickup. You can arrange for FedEx to pick them up any day this week. Her response nothing. I already wasted a lot of time on this, I am certainly not going to beg her to come get her defective parts. She had all my contact details and emails. Her responsibility - period!!!! Why the hell should I spend hour after hour trying to get her to take responsibility for her business? Anyone that owns a business (as I do) knows it is THEIR responsibility. If you cannot understand this Orson, they you need a reality check.

I stated CLEARLY the problem with the parts and it is the responsibility of the buyer to fix them. I have now 4 buyers all willing to do that. I in no way am trying to cheat anyone or "pull the wool" over anyone's eyes in this. I don't advertise these as new or as anything but needing work to make safe- do I Orson? Again, you need a reality check.

Go find another thread to spew your idiotic comments on Orson.

Anyone that is so worried about Sue Miller's business I tell you what, put your money where your mouth is. Buy the parts back for her and deliver them to her. Otherwise shut the hell up.
Last edited by davidwinegar on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPost by: davidwinegar » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:54 am

Grizzly wrote:
davidwinegar wrote:Let's set the record straight here...

Grizzly
Stating that I am selling parts that are stolen and I should "ask for permission" to sell from Sue Miller *** absolutely idiotic. The fact is she sold me a defective part. She took responsibility and refunded my purchase. However she did nothing as a company to find out what was defective. I should ask for permission to sell now products that have sat unclaimed for 4 years??? She abandoned them and legally I am well within my rights to sell them on as they are now my property and not hers.

David

No i didn't say they were Stolen !! don't try and twist it ...... I have to agree with Orsom Weels, it sounds like Sue refunded you on face value (as she does) and you never gave her a day to arrange pick up, it makes no sense that she would write off Hundreds of pounds worth of parts just like that? whats more likely is she was distracted by her work load waiting for your reply. Have you sent any reminders since 2013 or more importantly contacted her recently with your intention to sell them? (2017)

Hahahaaa yeah sure I should be the one - like I don't have my OWN work to distract me. Come on really, listen to your own idiocy. I notified her they are ready for pickup - period. READ the email.

You bitch and whine about the forum but you forget she is a small family run business that many people on here have a good relation with, she has never been anything but helpful, courteous and trusting often sending parts out before payment has cleared. It sounds like you have taken advantage of her and you wounder why people rip into you?
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:01 am

David

" Last I will comment on this so don't bother - the shafts are sold ". Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:01 pm

also

"no need to delete mine as I will never participate here again." Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:54 am

Please....

John :wink:
Last edited by john.p.clegg on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: theelanman » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:28 am

WOW....
best thread in ages...!!!!!
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PostPost by: bengalcharlie » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:57 am

why has this post and membership not been removed yet???

Drive shafts have been sold, and the guy does not want to be part of this group anymore anyway??

Time to move on and cut the crap! No need to put up with that kind of language

Just my 2 cents worth from the far south.

Have a nice day

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PostPost by: davidwinegar » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:01 pm

john.p.clegg wrote:David

" Last I will comment on this so don't bother - the shafts are sold ". Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:01 pm

also

"no need to delete mine as I will never participate here again." Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:54 am

Please....

John :wink:



Sure thing John as soon as the others here apologize for their abysmal behavior towards me. I have a right to defend what were several insults and personal attacks. John why don't you start! Afterall it was you that initiated all the negative crap with your comment on sending Sue the profits.
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:59 pm

David
Sorry....but I think I have nothing to apologize for.....any profit from the sale of said items should go to Sue , as their rightful owner , by all means deduct for your losses.

As for them being sold , maybe you should remove the listing from Fleabay as it still has 6 days 4 hours left to run.

Being an honourable man why not stick to your word , stop your comments and participation .

Take a chill pill

John :wink:
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