Lotus Elan

Gearbox for +2 with Spyder chassis

PostPost by: HCA » Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:28 am

I need some help please on what to do re my gearbox!

I had hoped that a Voigt box was the way forward for me, but it requiures some change to the chassis and I really want to avoid splitting the body from the chassis.

What are my options for a box/bellhousing that will readily bolt onto a standard block AND slot nicely into the chassis as it is? I am not concerned about gear lever position as the new tunnel trim has been recovered so I can cut the lever aperture to suit.

As I see it, there are two options - recon the existing box or move to a Type T9 box sold by Kelendon. Are there any other options, or does anyone have any comments from experience please?

thanks!
Hal
Hal Adams

Evora - the poser
Elan +2 - keeps me busy
Macan - hers
Felicia Pickup - my favourite
User avatar
HCA
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 676
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France

PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:33 am

Fitment of a Voight box depends on the age of the Spyder chassis and its detail around the box area as understand it ? A Lotus 5 speed fits in the mid 80's Spyder chassis based on my experience

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 8097
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: HCA » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:45 am

Thanks Rohan, I thought that all chassis models needed modification for Voigt.

I have, since posting, contacted Kelvendon who are not sure they can source a T9 any more, so maybe I shall stick with the standard box. I have just spoken with some one who goes back a long way with Lotus boxes. In principle he is willing to rebuild my box, says he has all the parts required, so maybe this is the route to go. He has a good reputation, not cheap, but at least I know that the box will bolt back in without any messing around...
Hal Adams

Evora - the poser
Elan +2 - keeps me busy
Macan - hers
Felicia Pickup - my favourite
User avatar
HCA
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 676
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France

PostPost by: Foxie » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:11 pm

I fitted the first Voigts T9 to my Mark I Spyder +2 chassis in 2004.

I had to grind away some high points on the main box to clear lateral chassis tubes. The main mod was to cut back parts of the central chassis web, especially round the speedo drive. There was a problem with the gear reverse selector detent spring / plunger, a sort of top-hat in the middle of the G/B top cover which fouled the tunnel when installing/removal the engine gearbox assembled as a unit.

At the time I supplied Alan Voights with details, pics and drawings of my mods which he noted. I have them on file if interested.

Alan later modified the reverse detent position to the left centre of the tailhousing. When he subsequently did this mod to my gearbox, it now interfered with the adjacent diagonal tube in the chassis, which I had to replace with a skin panel.

I see Spyder chassis incorporated this mod in their later chassis.

The bell housing did not need any mods.

I later fitted an electronoic speedo with the pick -up on the CV spyder which would have avoided having to cut clearance for the speedo drive.

The gearbox has now been in the car for 18 years, during which time I've done about 40k miles on the scenic and alpine routes of Europe, and raced and hillclimbed for the last 15 years.

It has never given a problem.

:)
68 Elan +2, 70 Elan +2s
User avatar
Foxie
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1071
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Wexford, Ireland

PostPost by: HCA » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:38 pm

Thanks Foxie, we have had this conversation before, and you have highlighted the reasons why I cannot use a Voigt box as it means lifting the body.

After a couple more conversations today, I shall - unless there is another bolt-in option - have the existing box rebuilt.
Hal Adams

Evora - the poser
Elan +2 - keeps me busy
Macan - hers
Felicia Pickup - my favourite
User avatar
HCA
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 676
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France

PostPost by: Foxie » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:08 pm

Here is the difference in the later Spyder chassis from the earlier type.

They have replaced the rear-most left diagonal tube with a panel which has an opening to clear the projection on the gearbox.

:)
Attachments
P7030028.jpg and
Spyder frame from web site with TC and MT75 (2).jpg and
68 Elan +2, 70 Elan +2s
User avatar
Foxie
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1071
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Wexford, Ireland

PostPost by: h20hamelan » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:47 pm

The reason I’ve now got 6 or so Tremec boxes is they are so very cheap, plenty out there. I think the new TKX is going to fit as well. I have no idea on chassis on the new TKX, but surely finding 6 T5 boxes in the states from a wrecker and a 1cubic meter box shipping cant be much more than the other options.
So if you look at it from an availability standpoint.
Born, and brought home from the hospital (no seat belt (wtf)) in a baby!
Find out where the limits are, and start from there
Love your Mother
Earth
User avatar
h20hamelan
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1316
Joined: 25 Sep 2010
Location: RACECAR spelled backward, is——RACECAR!

PostPost by: mbell » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:56 pm

Another option is to get a used gearbox. +2 5 speed ones are rare and expensive. But Elite/Eclat one are more available and lower cost, they are the same basic central box with different bell housing, tail housings and some upgrades.

You'd need to swap over bell housing and tail housing from current box to the new one. Of course this option come with more risk as condition of the used box may not be known.
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
mbell
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2193
Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Austin, TX (UK Ex-pat)

PostPost by: RichardHawkins » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:13 pm

Hal,

Had you considered asking Spyder what your gearbox options are. I would like to think that they would know from the chassis you have what gearbox would fit. They used to assemble and sell complete plus two lotus based on their chassis.

Hope this helps,

Richard Hawkins
RichardHawkins
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 963
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Location: Lincolnshire U.K.

PostPost by: HCA » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:08 am

Thanks Foxie for persevering! In deference, I have just lifted the car this morning and definitely, I have the older chassis without your mod. As I really do not want to split the body and chassis I cannot go the Voigt route much as I would like to. I am though much more upbeat having found and spoke with Graham Boulton (he says hello btw...) who will rebuild my five speed and has a work around for the gear lever issue.

Thanks mbell for the suggestion, but I'd rather pay for a decent rebuild rather than take the risks you mention!

Richard, yes, done that, but in the early days it seems that Spyder did not look way into the future, so the chassis was made for original. They then brought in a six speed, but were very quiet on telling me more. Then ton the later chassis they fitted Foxies modification and seem to promete Voigt, or the did to me. I'd go down this route, but for splitting the body off...
Hal Adams

Evora - the poser
Elan +2 - keeps me busy
Macan - hers
Felicia Pickup - my favourite
User avatar
HCA
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 676
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France

PostPost by: Foxie » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:15 pm

Nice to be "Mentioned in Despatches" !

:)
68 Elan +2, 70 Elan +2s
User avatar
Foxie
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1071
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Wexford, Ireland

PostPost by: mbell » Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:02 pm

HCA wrote:Thanks mbell for the suggestion, but I'd rather pay for a decent rebuild rather than take the risks you mention!


I suspected that would be the case and think you probably taking the right route for your situation.

I've been considering buying a used one to swap in while I sort out 4th gear synchro on my box, but as ever with these thing the price seems to have gotten higher so likely just attempt a quick synchro change on my box and hope for the best.

HCA wrote:has a work around for the gear lever issue.


Out of interest what issue is this?
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
mbell
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2193
Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Austin, TX (UK Ex-pat)

PostPost by: HCA » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:29 pm

The nylon cup/bush at the bottom of the gear lever - it goes hard and breaks up (?) that many experience.
Hal Adams

Evora - the poser
Elan +2 - keeps me busy
Macan - hers
Felicia Pickup - my favourite
User avatar
HCA
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 676
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France

PostPost by: mbell » Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:09 am

Thanks, just to confirm the lower ball or the white cup just above the colored bit that screws into the gearbox?

I've replaced the ball on mine and now the cup has failed. So interested if there is a source to buy the cup?
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
mbell
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2193
Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Austin, TX (UK Ex-pat)

PostPost by: HCA » Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:54 pm

I think it is the cup that is hard to find - I am not well up on the issue other than my gearlever cup and ball have broken and rattle. I am surprised no-one has jumped in before as I thought it was a widely known issue where some members have found work-arounds. Graham, whom I spoke with about a rebuild uses something quite different, he did say, but I cannot remember. I will let you know once completed, but this may not be until late this year at the earliest...
Hal Adams

Evora - the poser
Elan +2 - keeps me busy
Macan - hers
Felicia Pickup - my favourite
User avatar
HCA
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 676
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests